View Full Version : ok, we need a rough ppm guide for us noobs
05-21-2006, 04:08 PM
I know I bought a ppm meter because a lot of peeps suggested so but there seems to be no kind of guide as to what the ppm's should be during the different stages of growth. I thought since ppms are important (to some) and are mentioned a lot that it would be very helpful to us noobs if we could have some kind of guide for seedlings/clones, vegetative growth and of course flowering staged of what the ppm's should be for GH 3 part formula. (others too of course) Also, should we use the directions on our nute bottles...full strength or half or just what?? I know that it would help me out a real lot. Thanks for your time!
05-21-2006, 08:37 PM
5.8 to 6.2 during all stages of growth. No Exceptions.
05-21-2006, 10:19 PM
yes, that is a good ph level for the hydro setups, thanks wes
05-21-2006, 11:51 PM
PPM's for different stages of growth varies by brand of nutes.
Some organic products read very low on a PPM meter but pack a punch!
PPM meters "basically" read the amount of fertilizer salts in your mix.
Most chemmical nutes are high in salts, while more organic nutes like PureBlendPro read lower..BUT are just as strong!
That's why you need a table for each brand of nutes.
Also some strains will tolerate up to 2000ppm and some will burn at 1000ppm..it's a bit complex.
Reading the plants is more important IMO than using a set PPM level.
Some manufacturer's offer suggestions as to mix rates and PPM's....there always a bit high though. They like to sell the stuff :)
"They like to sell the stuff" boy did you say a mouth full Green Medicine! I've seen some manufactures list different strengths from low to med. to high. I was using the med. formula from one manufacture and I had way too much nutes in my grow. I had to flush for 3 days and even on the low formula I thought I had some nute burn.
I agree PH and PPM meters are important but the most important way, I feel, is to just look at your plants. You will be able to tell if your plant are in trouble. If your plants look good and strong your doing it right if they don't start making changes to your grow. Simple!
05-22-2006, 11:37 AM
I use the PPM as a guide, I'm using DNF in my current grow. Recomended PPM is 2000.... this should be reached by adding 5ml/1L of res water. I reach this point easily.. but I don't stop there... before the garden is finished I will have up to 6-6.5ml/1L. Normally I "over-nute" my garden slightly... when I see the very first signs of nute burn I back off slightly with my nutes and hold an ellevated nute level. In my experience you can really hit your plants with nutes.. so long as you give them PLENTY of time to reach the max nute load they can use (I'm in week 4 right now and my nute levels are up to 5.75ml/1L... next nute swap will see 6ml/1L, week six will see 6.5ml/1L)
As the plants grow and become accustomed to the ellevated nute level my PPM meter (Truncheon) becomes less and less important as I take my cues from the plants at this stage. Old "first stage growth" normally shows the first signs of trouble... watch these leaves and learn to read their signals ;)
05-22-2006, 06:59 PM
You do know the Truncheon reads PPM's differently than most meters?
By several hundred PPM's..
It uses the OCEANIA standard of conversion 0.7 vs the NIST standard of 0.5
1.00 EC = 500 PPM's at 0.5 conversion <--most meters
1.00 EC = 700 PPM's at 0.7 conversion <--Truncheon
So 2000 PPM on a Truncheon is really only 1200 PPM on most meters.
05-22-2006, 07:06 PM
My meter is bi..it goes both ways
It's so strain specific. Try 2.00 EC and move up.
05-22-2006, 11:26 PM
need a lower ppm truncheon meter I have found. Around 850 to 1100 at the top end. In pots with pro mix and advanced I found I could push the plants as hard as Zar said ,....with ppm truncheon levels exceeding 2000 the norm in week 7.:D :D
05-23-2006, 04:36 AM
I'm sorry I completely read that wrong. I have to agree with green medicine that ppm's are defintly both fert and strain specific. But I think I need to point out that all strains will be able to handle more fert if given an equally porportionate amount more of light. For an example Trainwreck(a very finicky strain) produces quite nice with 2000ppm of fert under 2000w of HPS per 3x6 but nearly doubles when the the ppm's are increased to 3200 and put under 3000w of HPS as a mutual friend of mine and GM's has proved recently.
05-23-2006, 12:35 PM
My Gawd, what a light-hog that T.W. is. Speaking of which, the good Rev. M.R. stopped by yesterday and gifted me with a foot and half tall, rooted clone straight from Beserker's bush up north to keep as a Mother. Now I got Vanwreck & T.W. going side-by-side. Sativa heaven here I come. Zip-Zap-dart-dash. Look and me move.
05-24-2006, 11:29 PM
Thanks for all your replies...I thought it would be easy, but it doesn't sound that way!!
05-25-2006, 12:58 AM
It's a natural process for plants to grow. When we as gardners try to control every aspect of growth....it runs us ragged!
So most people take a mix of "old fashioned farmer" - reading the plants needs and going slowly with nutes and additives, keeping it simple - and a mix of modern science to get the most from our plants.
It takes time to figure out that "full strength" is what nute makers want and "quarter strength" is what small plants want :D
Mistakes are part of the process...Ever seen a GREAT NASCAR driver that never spun out?
My own rule is 25% of the Mfg's recommendation for seedlings and 50% for maturing plants. I then raise PPM 100 at a time till I see the plant "complain"
by signs of burnt tips or patches of nute burn. That's how I determine the max nutes.
Most of the time..if the plants happy, I just leave the nutes where they are. It's much better to underfeed than fry/damage a plant on too much.
Do you have a good book with pictures of plant problems? With a good book you can identify a plant problem when it just starts and you can correct it.
And once you get to "know" a brand of nutes, PPM won't matter, you can mix by formula - measuring by weight or volume. Like baking a cake :)
For me I can live without a PPM meter if I had to...but I live by the pH meter!
Bad pH is the #2 killer of plants, overwatering is #1 and inhalation is #3 :) and pests #4...
It's part of the learning process that makes good gardeners.
And you are on the right track!
05-26-2006, 12:34 AM
That makes sense GM to listen to the plants.;) However, when you are new to growing (not smoking) and you have read tons of info on ph, ppms, nutes, lockouts, leaf burn, flowering nutes and this and that and then contradicting info it gets very overwhelming to know if you are doing it right at the right time. :( LOL...I guess just like having your first kid...u just wonna do it just right!! lol:D
You are right...gardening is not that hard, I've been doing it for years and years. I will give it the listen to the plants approach, it seems like that would work!!
Again, tons of thanks for the great advice from all of you pros!! I guess that is how you get to be a pro right??!! lol:D
Again, thanks for your time
05-26-2006, 12:28 PM
I did the same thing Payne, I read everything I could and got my head so full of info I started to freak out. I then just said fug-it and started some beans and decided to try and do the best I could. Experience is the best teacher and growing meds is not so tough once you get that first grow or two under your belt or in the jars as they case may be...................
05-27-2006, 04:59 PM
I must admit I did as most begining growers and read everything I could get my hands on. It was too much information, too fast. I finally settled on a 'starting formula' and soaked some beans. Afer 24 hours in water, i dropped my beans into 'peat pellets' and watered with 'ph adjusted water' only for 2 weeks. THEN I started with GH Nutes, Lucus formula (2 parts), but started real low and slow. I went with 2cc (2 teaspoons) Micro and 4cc (4 teaspoons) Bloom. In my 5 gallon 'bubblers', 2cc/4cc increases 200 PPM. I kept increasing the concentration every 2 days up to 1,000 PPM. With my strains, 1,000 PPM works great for veg. Your strains may need more or less.
After flipping to flowering, I start with fresh ph adjusted water for 3 days and go through the same 'build up' of nutes. For my strains in flower, I go up to 1,600 PPM. These 'guidelines' work for Hydro DWC with my 800 watt flouro for veg and 400 watt HPS for flower.
I doubt many are using the exact same stuff as me so everyone HAS TO READ THE PLANTS for final adjustment. And, I will admit to 'burning up' a few seedlings until I learned to increase nutes 'slow and steady' and WATCH THE PLANTS.
Good luck and happy growing,
05-28-2006, 08:01 PM
Thanks for the encouraging words.
Leroy...yes, I can relate to that freaking out ...and its not that I am new to gardening...only ladies!! LOL, So I kinda know what I am doing???? lol
upper, thanks for your advise as well...I am going slow...I think?!!
05-31-2006, 05:20 AM
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05-31-2006, 11:34 PM
thanks for the suggestion on the books...will check them out for sure!!
Clear Head C
06-01-2006, 08:41 AM
like gm said it depends on the strain, I grow multiple strains and Was mixing my nutes the same for all, but had to change as some strains did not like the nutes as much
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