Truth, Dogma, or Manipulation?

[groo]

Every story in every religious text has many levels of meaning, particularly if you focus on fragments or passages out of context.

For example, some look on the story of Soddom and Gommorah as a warning against homosexuality, because some centuries ago, someone claimed that Biblical "know" referred to sex. Isn't it actually a story warning of the dangers of paranoia, suspicion, and failing to know and trust your neighbours?

Was Christ's death some miraculous salvation, or was it a warning and a reminder of the lengths the greedy and manipulative will go to when protecting the status quo and their slice of an undeserved pie? Who was hurt by the Christian message? The jews who followed? Or the "entitled" leadership who saw their steady stream of donations and sacrifices threatened if people kept waking up?

When Mohammed reminded the Muslims to "defend your faith", was he referring to butchering anyone who disagrees with your beliefs, or was he reminding people to study and learn so that they could calmly defend their beliefs when learning from others?

When Mohammed told the Muslims that persecution and even death for your beliefs was an honour, did he suggest that people commit ritual suicide? What of the passages where he specifically tells the Muslim people to make peace when an enemy offers, or to live in peace with the "people of the book" (Christians and Jews)?

Why is it that some insist on blaming the Jews for all the ails and woes of the world, when they simply have a self-supporting community that works together the same as the Buddhists and Hindus?

Another baffling spirituality issue I've run into lately is the disrespect for the faith of peoples who had no writing in their culture. Where is the fundamental flaw or lie in the Great Spirit, Mother Earth, or respecting that meat comes from taking or sacrificing the life of an animal? It seems a culture of gratitude and respect, not something to laugh at and denigrate because it doesn't follow Biblical homilies and text.

The Buddhists (and presumably Hindus) refer to the "Bodhi mind". In what way is that different from "soul" or "Holy Spirit" other than their choice to deny the existance of a universal intelligence or God?

Humans baffle me. All around the world, they preach variants on the same message from different texts and history, yet so many of them blindly condemn anyone and anything that disagrees. What difference between a psychotic mullah directing the young to die for his beliefs, and a vatican dictating what people should even be allowed to hear or see? "The Satanic Verses" or "The DaVinci Code" -- is either "evil", or does it highlight the fears of the respective clergy who have not taught and prepared their parishioners to think about their beliefs?

Cowards fear disagreement; the faithful learn and grow from it.

[Lucy]

what a great thought provoking post.....:)

what if we just return from whence we originate, and that whichever path traveled they lead to the same destination...the routes and vechiles may vary but it makes no difference.

Your right there is far too much ego and not enough compassion in our dealings with our fellow man...

If one truly believes that their path is "the one' and "the right one".. why are differing views so often cause for hatered, anger and violence...instead this should give rise to compassion and understanding.

What if .... wherever one believes they go is where they go?
There is no right or wrong of it.

...If we are created in the image of our creator...then we are all creators...we create our heaven, shangrila etc.....and equally we create our own hell....

Give up the struggle to be right....give up the struggle to be special. We already are everything and nothing at the same time.

[pflover]

I'm reading the da vinci code right now. Altho calling it pro christian might be a strech so is calling it evil. it DOES disagree with some inportant dogma of christianity but it expresses other eqally important powerful spiritual beliefs. beliefs that are often lacking in christianity, that of the sacred life giving nature of female creatures, making them in essense creators. the apreciation for this has been lost to much of our modern cultures.

differing points of view are not evil but they can be threatening. how better to deminish the threat than to lable them evil and ban their discussion?

here is an equally important thing to ponder, why are univerally tolerant groups, like the unitarians for example, not more univerally accepted? people like to beleave they are special. if everyone basically has it right then no one is particularly special and there in lies the biggest threat of all.

[pflover]

...If we are created in the image of our creator...then we are all creators...we create our heaven, shangrila etc.....and equally we create our own hell....

wow that is a really fantastic point! :eek: ;)

[Calydin]

When I was a boy, age 8, I was told a story in Sunday school about how Jesus went into a village and performed miracles. One of the children Christ healed was one who had malformed hands, due to an accident, and the buy asked Jesus to heal him.

For 5 years after, 13, I prayed fervently to the Lord and Jesus for redemption and healing. It never came and my emotions towards the established church grew sour. By the time I was 17 I had turned my back on the Church completely.

At age 18 I had hit a hard time in my life and was at the lowest point I had ever been. I had taken my father's gun and loaded it, hid it under my pillow and was ready to end it all when a friend came out to visit from California. Before he arrived I had asked, "Ok God. Now is the time to do anything to help because I am at the lowest point in my life."

My friend came over and began telling me about Wicca and Druidism. The latter is what caught my attention.

Soon I had began a journey of druidic learning and what it meant to be in the shadows. I had found my religion of choice. As the months went on we formed an Order and soon that same friend turned it into a bad thing. In the end the order split and we all went our seperate ways.

It was many years later (truly it was, just a half a year ago) when I suddenly realized that what had happened was not my fault or anyones for that matter, except the person who turned it all around.

I think humans, if not kept humble or reminded of our place, have a tendancy to take control of something and turn it into their favor. The Church has been doing this for decades.

Today I practice spirituality. My faith is stronger in God and in Mother Earth. I have a sense that whatever may be beyond is something that is to be loved and open, not judgemental or wrathful.

I sometimes wonder, "did we get created in God's image, or have we created Him in ours?"

[Lucy]

I think humans, if not kept humble or reminded of our place, have a tendancy to take control of something and turn it into their favor. The Church has been doing this for decades.
"

The book "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" by Chogyam Trungpa...discusses this very thing and more....How religion is often used to reinforce one's ego. This can happen in any religion or spiritual oritentation. Most religious leaders start off with good intentions....I suppose for some the adoration of the "flock" can cause them to loose control of their ego. It begins to become about them...this happens in other areas where there is a leader, but I think so much damage gets done in the area of religion. Further, this same issue can occur on just an individual level...I believe this is part of the reason why there is so much conflict between religions. Needing to be right about one's beliefs again serves to reinforce the ego.

[MystedDni]

Speaking from experience, {{Disclaimer: these are no longer my thoughts or view point on the matter}} When I was "saved" at the age of 15 I was zealous for God. I was out to save the world! (Bares chesty shirt that says super-christian) To the point that I even told my mother she was going to hell if she did not give her life to Jesus. She literally wanted to commit me!

Oh yea my point... One day I got a wild hair! I decided that in order for me to effectivley preach the gospel I needed to learn about other religions. So what did I do? I went to my pastor and told him this is my plan. I am going to learn about buddhism, mormon's, LDS, you name it I am gonna learn it. He looks at me from across his really nice desk (thats another thread entirely) and said "that sounds nice Jill. But here is what I think you should do. I think you should read that bible you have. Don't learn about others views or thoughts. Because if you do, you will have to spend that much more time in prayer and that much more time in the bible getting all those other thoughts out of your head!"

Me being the nice little nieve christian girl I was at the time I agreed. Who needs to learn that? But in the back of mind I knew something was wrong with that statement. My last visit to church was when my first husband and I were getting a divorce and that same pastor looked at me and told me to take my ex for everything he had, never let him see our daughter again, and when they as a church felt it was time they would over see my dating and provide me with a suitable mate.

Ok long point longer... The problem is, everyon thinks they are right! I love your post! If we could only learn from one another, not get defensive, but just listen and have the mind-set that you know what I honor your truth. It may not be mine, but I honor it! I have learned more from other peoples perspectives than from any book or school.

If we could end the fear, and focus on the unconditionality that really ALL religions preach in some form or another.. the world would be a better place.

Thanks for letting me post my 2 cents.. well ok maybe 10 cents. LOL :rolleyes: