Double Butter an experiment in butter making

[PharmaPharmer]

I've been pretty fortunate to come across a nearly endless source of very high quality trim and small bud for hash making. I just have to split the yield with my buddy (also a patient). This leaves me with lot's and lot's of hashed bud and trim. I hate to waste it so I've been making butter from the waste.

The effects are pretty heavy on the couch lock/munchie inducing end of the buzz spectrum. Perfect for the appetite supressed and pretty good for pain control/anxiety.

In my continuing efforts to make dangerously potent butter I have set on the following course of action. I'm making butter as per my normal crock pot method but rather than filtering and water washing it I'm going to just collect it and put it back into the crock pot with a fresh batch of hashed weed to cook on low for another night. If I'm still motivated and the logistics work out I'll repete the process till I have put 3 pounds (dry weight before hashing) through the crock pot with the same two pounds of butter I started with.

Through this process I hope to acheive maximum saturation of my butter.

Cycle 2 has just been started. I'll update as I go with a review of what I make from the butter at the end. I figure it will take at least 4 days to get through all the weed even with my monster crock pot.

[allmanjoy]

I was wondering if there is a maximum amount that butter can soak up in the process. I dont have large amounts so I was thinking of instead of 21 grams for 2 sticks of butter doing 14 grams to one stick. I make one loaf banana bread from a stick of butter. The 21 grams to 2 sticks gets most people nice from one slice (10 slices to loaf) 2 loves from 2 sticks.
But I wonder what 14 to 21 grams per one stick butter would be more potent.
I simer in water for 4 hours. I also wonder if you gain that much more by cooking longer. PFLOVER would you care to comment.
Look forward to your report Pharm
:eek:

[PharmaPharmer]

There is always a maximum saturation for any solvent/solute combination. I hope I reach it with this experiment.

[pflover]

I've always worried less about maximum saturation and much more about the leave's portion when considering reconstituting butter like that. No matter how well you squeeze it you still loose some to the leaf ball. Other than worrying about that one factor tho I have been planning to do the same thing. I have a lot of leaf to process and have been curious if it would make a noticeable difference to try it out.

One thing to consider is that with all the other stuff that is in leaf part of your saturation will not be drug material but other stuff like tars. Starting with hash or oil is the only sure way to pack the most drug into the butter per weight, imho.

[onus]

I had the same question as pflover re: the loss of butter absorbed in the leaf material, batch after batch. Next time I'm in the Pacific Northwest (aka apple HQ of the universe), I'm going to look for a cider press. It seems to me that this might be an excellent alternative to squeezing that shake ball, which I find a royal pain and literally painful if I don't wait for the ball to cool down. And until I can squeeze that SOB until it looks like a hockey puck I will be convinced I'm losing quite a bit of butter to absorption.

I recently made some tincture with 190 proof Everclear, about 1/4 oz bud to (I'm guessing) 6-8 oz. of ethanol. After the tincture was done, I put it in with 2 oz. of emu oil and reduced that to the original volume of emu oil over a water bath (for safe heating of the alcohol and decarboxylation). I use this mix for an emolient and it works great for that. It does not produce any kind of high. But I do think it keeps my neuropathic pain at bay. But here's the question:

Was I able to transfer the cannabinoids from the ethanol to the fats (emu oil)? Short of a lab test, it's difficult to know for sure. Therefore, the next time I do this I am going to put the tincture in butter, then boil out the alcohol. And I'll make my usual oatmeal/choc chip cookies from that butter and then judge how well the desired cannabinoids made the transfer. In theory, scientists I work with tell me, this method should work. But you raise a very interesting point re: maximum solubility in a given solution with a given ingredient. Hmmmmm. My guess is that we've not approached maximum solubility with these fat extraction methods. I say that because, to my knowledge, bubble hash is the most pure form available to the casual user, and it's not all that pure (by, for example, pharmaceutical standards). Consider the very small volume of bubble hash that one gets out of a large volume of shake. And consider how that small amount of hash compares to the volume of the butter, for example--it's grams compared to ounces.

Just my two cents.

onus

[PharmaPharmer]

A note on loss. In a typical batch of butter I loose around 20-25%. This is largely accounted for by the 20% water contained in butter.

I'll be performing a thourough water wash on the resulting butter to get rid of accumulated water soluables. Tars and oils will definatly be more present which I don't know how to get rid of while keeping the cannabinoids.

onus: I've thought a lot about preferential soluability and sofar have not been able to find any referance on it. It would seem, from your experiment, that some of the cannabinoids didn't transfer from the tincture. Although you said you use it as an emolient which I assume you don't eat. If this is the case I wouldn't expect to absorb cannabinoids through the skin unless using DMSO or another similar solvent.

The main reason I'm doing this is to try an make a super anti-nausea/appetite stimulating medicine. I got the idea a long time ago for a 2 part edible. The first would be the couch lock effects and the second would be the head high. If I can eventually make a super potent part A and a super potent part B then patients could dial in the effects for their individual symptoms and physiology by altering the ratio of part A to part B. Just think Alice in Wonderland, one pill make you bigger, one make you small!

I'm guessing already that this butter may not be suitable for making carmels out of for the reasons PF mentioned above (oils & tars).

[onus]

First of all, a note on your note re: loss being accounted for in the water fraction of the butter: How do you know you've separated out the water from the butter as it sits there steadfastly absorbed in that ball of shake? My observation has been that when I squeeze that ball I get a liquid that's composed of both, very much like the rest of the liquid.

Second, did the cannabinoids make it from the tincture into the emu oil? I am applying the emu oil topically, yes, and I expect no psychological effects from that topical administration. From what I understand, the size of the molecule would make it very unlikely that it would be taken up from the skin cells and circulated to the rest of the body. You're right. I don't know for a fact that they're there. That's why I'm going to do the same technique but with an edible fat, butter, instead of emu oil. From that edible product I will be able to judge whether the cannabinoids migrated from the alcohol to the fat.

pflover, you live in beautiful Oregon, another apple haven. I've never actually laid eyes on a cider press. Do you think I'm on the right track re: squeezing all of the residual butter/water out of the shake ball?

Good thread.

onus

[allmanjoy]

when I make my canabutter I have found that if I start with 2 sticks of butter then I divide my cana in 2 pieces and when I make my banana bread that calls for 1 stick of butter it never fails so what ever mass loss I have it wont effect your recipe.
I think any type squeegie system you can rig up will work well in extracting everything out of herbs. I also have found taking a 1/4cup of hot water and pouring it over squezzed herb and resquezzing is another way to get all butter out as the second hot water rinses out the butter.

So as far as how much butter will take in wouldnt it be simpler to start with just one stick of butter and simmer it with increased amounts of raw meds and then test until you see no increase effects. Meaning say 1 0z to 1 stick butter then 2 oz to 0ne stick then 3 oz to one stick. then if you make 3 banana breads with one stick each and then compare the same size dose from the 3 breads.

I wish I had a endless supply to try all of this. We had talked about trying to make oil from my vaporizer bowl and if I used 2 oz of alcohol and clean bowl and then save and continue to use same alcohol for like 10 cleanings and then let alcohol evap would i have a more potent oil. We need a chemist.

In school I had a teacher that was always experimenting with drugs etc. He told the class that LSD helped his migranes and he kept some in water so he could dose himself as needed. To bad I dont know what I know now as he would have found the answer. One of his inventions was to put vanilla flavor in stinky photo chemical so you wouldn't pass out in dark room.

Informative thread will enjoy hearing the results and if you create wonderland.
:D

[PharmaPharmer]

onus: From what I've read I'm guessing I'm making "nearly" anhydrous butter oil as the water seperates from the butter on melting and by not agitating it during re-solidification one wouldn't expect a significant amount of water to be reintroduced. I've gone as far as boiling and re-squeezing the bud ball to get that last bit of butter out but it's never produced much extra so I don;t bother anymore.

I can't wait to hear about transfering cannabinoids from alcohol to butter or the inverse. I'd almost bet that with lab analysis one would find that some cannabinoids are more soluable in fat than alcohol or the inverse. This opens up the possibility to seriously customize cannabinoid ratios to an individuals needs.

I just finished a small batch of hash for a pal from pure small bud with no leaf. Next cycle with the butter will have that hashed bud in it just to mix it up a bit.

The small bud/trim I used yesterday was from some outdoor AfCrack (Afghani X Green Crack) and todays hash was made from pure burmeese grown in a fat indoor setup. I can almost taste it!!

[onus]

I've done exactly the same thing, put the shake ball in a second boiling water 'bath' to try and wring as much butter out as I could. And I had the same result you did: maybe I recovered a little, but it just wasn't worth it.

I tend to do cannabutter making/cooking every once in a while. Don't know exactly when I'll get it together to do the alcohol extraction/reduction/transfer to butter, but I'll let you know when I do.

What we need is a cheap home test for mj potency. Yeah, in my dreams. :)

onus

[pflover]

I've been dreaming of a small friut press for butter pressing for a long time now. they are pritty pricy tho.

[pflover]

I've gone as far as boiling and re-squeezing the bud ball to get that last bit of butter out but it's never produced much extra so I don;t bother anymore.


This is my experience as well but the plant matter no matter how well i squeeze it is always still a little oily implying it is trapping some butter. Not a big deal if this is the only batch the butter is used for but just how many batches can you do before the loss does become significant? That I don't know.

[lequebecfume]

I've gone as far as boiling and re-squeezing the bud ball to get that last bit of butter out but it's never produced much extra so I don;t bother anymore.

Open the oven doors and put the crock pots on the back burner.

I saw this live in Hempology class the week before last and instead of squeezing for you life, use the residue to make cannaplasts.

Gayle from the CBC in Victoria says this:


Cannaplasts are a poultice made of recycled plant material produced in the making of cookies and oils, wrapped in new cheesecloth. They are applied directly to insect stings and bites, varicose veins, sore joints and muscles. They relieve arthritic inflammation and rheumatic pains. Cannaplasts may also be used to help sore or inflamed eyes, pull sties and alleviate pinkeye. They are warmed and place upon upset or cramping stomachs, irritable bowels, or used for menstrual cramps.

Also use on broken bones, sprains, strains and bursitis, for appropriate lengths of time.

They work best if you apply some massage oil first.


LEQ

[PharmaPharmer]

Ok I'm at the 3rd cycle.This time I added some extra goodies. I use isopropyl alcohol to clean my bags and to clean the ziplock bags I heat and ball my hash in. Unfortunatly using ziplocks submerged in hot water to warm hash often leaves a bunch in the ziplock. I've been saving bothe the ziplocks and iso from cleaning my bubble bags. I used more ISO to clean out the ziplocks. I mixed both hash ladened sources of ISO and evaported it down to the point where it was mostly just water and hash left in the liquod and poured it into my crock pot with the butter. I left the lid off and a vent on to get rid of any remaining ISO.

This is the last cycle before I wash the butter and cooke some cookies or carmels with it.

[allmanjoy]

so once you are finished you will have to post exactly how much etc. I just want to know who the lucky person is to help quality control?
Should be a fun test ride. WIll u go for large dose or start small and work your way up?

I broke down and had a piece of Banana bread for dinner and the night is feeling alright.
;)

[PharmaPharmer]

After my experience with getting myself and a pall very sick from an overdose I think I'll be starting very small wit hthis batch.

Today I'm washing it and deciding what to make from it.

[allmanjoy]

yea it aint smart to consume too much. Emm got to pick something to bake that you are in the mood for. How much Budder will you batch make?

[pflover]

I have a lot of butter material saved up and am in the process of recovering the butter from step one in a reconstitution experiement very similar to phramas. I started with 6 sticks of butter am going to add 2 sticks each batch to account for the amout lost with successive batches using the same butter. I'm going to do 3 batches total I think but will not stop until I run out of plant matter to process. I've let it pile up for too long and have more coming in right now.

Even tho I am pre-washing ever batch like I always do I think I think I will do at least one post-wash also, like pharma usually does, since that is a lot of green the butter will be in contact with.

[PharmaPharmer]

Well It's done! Finaly. I ended up adding a 3rd pound of butter during the second cycle. Final yield 3 & 1/4 cups. It's pretty green even after water washing so carmels are out. I'm sure they would turn out ok but it's so much work if they don't so I'm just going to make cookies with 2 cups and punt the third to a pal who's realy sick.

Now it's baking time!

[allmanjoy]

how many cups of butter did you start with? And what quantity of green total did you end up using?
Those cookies are going to be pretty strong or will you use 1/2 reg and 1/2 cannabutter?
It will be interesting to see what you think about the strength.
Enjoy!!!

[pflover]

damn i think you should make carmels with it. they actaully work reasonably well with the green flavor making a pot flavored candy. tastes way better than any other green flavored food i have had before. :)

so what i am saying is make the carmels and if you don't like 'em send them this way and i'm sure they would be put to good use! no waisted work. LOL :rolleyes:

On that note tho, i know what you mean. I am not sure lisa will be able to eat this batch i am making as she has a pritty strong aversion to green taste after ODing once on green posta. I'll have to do my best to make it paletable tho. I'm just about ready to separate the water and butter from my second run through and get set up to do the third.

[PharmaPharmer]

I may still make them but it's a real pain, both literally and figurativly. In addition to the huge mess they make the constant stiring realy put's a hurt on my shoulder and back.

I never realy liked the green flavor but like Lisa my death brownie OD experience realy turned me on that chlorophyl taste. Perhaps I'll give the butter another water wash and just go for it once my cold lightens up a bit.

[pflover]

I might make a batch of those.... been trying to figure out what to make from the bulk of this batch. It's either that or splenda cookies. I should stop licking the spoon when I stir. LOL

[Dig]

Great thread guys and gals! I am about to start a big batch o' budder:p
Not sure how much butter I should use. I will be using the remains of my bubble batches. I think I am going to just make some really stout budder vs. more less potent.:D

[allmanjoy]

Pharma did you get to try your budder?

hope you found the perfect strength.

[PharmaPharmer]

Just finished a huge batch of carmels. It will be a bit before they are cool enough to cut so the jury is still out on the potency. I'm going to be realy bummed if they aren't knock your socks off potent. The butter was a LOT of work and I got a nasty 2nd degree burn while making the carmels.

[pflover]

candy making is soooo dangerous! I worry every time I do it that I'm going to scar myself.

[PharmaPharmer]

I burn my finger in exactly the same spot each batch. It's always a napalm glob of 225* liquid carmel spattering up on my right index finger.

Well I ate a little of the excess carmel with a friend an hour ago. I'm already VERY medicated. It's much headier than I expected but that may very well come to an end as large doses of oral THC can take up to three hours to absorb and metabolize to peak effect.

Pretty happy with the flavor too. They don't taste too much like pot at all. Now the bummer is I'm going to have to cut and wrap a whole bunch of small carmels. I may end up with carmel tunnel syndrome.

[PharmaPharmer]

WOW! It's been 16 hours since I ate that carmel and I still feel a bit stoned. I didn't sleep very well and I woke up stoned. Looks like the carmels will be pretty small this time.

[got2bme2]

PharmaPharmer, what a great thread! Wow I can't wait till I get some shake or duff. I have to try this, I love to bake, anyway. I've never eat meds before, is it like smoking or vaping? Or is it a couch lock or laid on the floor kind of experience?

hugs
becca

[PharmaPharmer]

PharmaPharmer, what a great thread! Wow I can't wait till I get some shake or duff. I have to try this, I love to bake, anyway. I've never eat meds before, is it like smoking or vaping? Or is it a couch lock or laid on the floor kind of experience?

hugs
becca


It's a little like vaping in that I was REALY REALY high. There was a serious body component to the high for certian though. With my body floating and my head swimming, the munchies got me bad. I have no doubt that i will run out of bathroom reading material as a direct result of the insane amount of junk food i ate.

I cut some carmels quite a bit smaller than my normal size. These are about 1"x1"x0.5" and weigh between 15 and 25g each. I ate half a small one at 10am and I'm drinking the rest of it in my vanilla chai chocolatte. Last night was fun but WAY too much for all the time or for light users.

[pflover]

I may end up with carmel tunnel syndrome.

<giggling hysterically>

[PharmaPharmer]

<giggling hysterically>
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[PharmaPharmer]

Well the final verdict is in. I droped by a few friends and played the candy man. At 1x1x0.5 inched each and weighing 15-25g each these are the most potent carmels I have made to date.

Yesterdays dose was probably equal to three or four of the current size carmels and it was nearly as intense as a mushroom trip. The current dose will surely be a bit much for a few friends but no problem to handle by any means.

[PharmaPharmer]

Yet another update. No joke, the carmels I made from this butter is dangerous! I've had a lot of reports from friends that they simply got way too stoned. One pal and his GF actually fell asleep till well past dark in a wilderness park. Could have been a bad scene is a bear or mountian lion stumbled upon them.

One unanticipated effect was on one of my much younger, been there-done that, know-it all friends. i warned him not to eat too many but he went for it anyway and reported back that he became so stoned he got the spins and puked a lot. He says he's never eating another carmel again. The bonus side effect part is that I bet he listens to me from now on when i tell him something is realy potent!

I'm personally only eating a realy small one or a half at a time. It helps me stay more productive and off the couch.

[allmanjoy]

Yet another update. No joke, the carmels I made from this butter is dangerous! I've had a lot of reports from friends that they simply got way too stoned. One pal and his GF actually fell asleep till well past dark in a wilderness park. Could have been a bad scene is a bear or mountian lion stumbled upon them.

One unanticipated effect was on one of my much younger, been there-done that, know-it all friends. i warned him not to eat too many but he went for it anyway and reported back that he became so stoned he got the spins and puked a lot. He says he's never eating another carmel again. The bonus side effect part is that I bet he listens to me from now on when i tell him something is realy potent!

I'm personally only eating a realy small one or a half at a time. It helps me stay more productive and off the couch.


So what was the final quanity of herb and resulting butter/ It sounds like you hit a home run. Do folks get the munchies as well. I am eating a large amount of banana bread for that effect so at least your calorie intack is small with caramels. BUt I also get the munchies bad during the bread effect.

Thanks for sharing .

[pflover]

half a caramel every 4 hours seems about right. munchies indeed unless i am working. my stuff is almost as potent but a but more heavy on the cbds/cbns.