Enough police already.

[Plode]

About a month ago, someone in my house was suspected of a crime. Police officers asked me to come outside and demanded I give my name. Initially I refused. They were asking for my ssn, dob, full name and the lot. I also live in a high-crime area.

They said they were going to charge me with obstruction of justice. I relented.

Fast forward. Me and a friend are walking to a gas station and a police officer stops us. She begins asking us details about where we were and where we were going. Again, they asked for all of my personal information.

I said "I do not like giving my information out for everyone to hear, may I come closer to you so I do not have to speak as loud". She said "Just tell me". I spoke quietly and she could not understand me. I then requested to take that blasted card out of her hand and fill it out for her.... so that my personal information stays mine. In the end, I bellowed my social for all to hear. And it turned out that someone reported a tresspassing 2 blocks away.

Does anyone know any way that I can not be charged with a crime for keeping my mouth shut when I am not suspected of a crime? or if I am suspected of a crime?

Even more recently, 2 people I know hurt each other physically. One of them ran from the where the incident occurred to the emergency room. The other waited for help to arrive. People that were nearby reported that one of the people was a good friend of mine. The same officer that stopped me on suspicion of trespassing... responded to this incident. She hears my name and knows where I live. So I get a knock.

No, actually. I'm in the shower, naked. My family answers the door, and let's the police in because they are repeating, "we know he's in there!" I towel off, get dressed(a towel and a tshirt) and watch the police open closets and look under beds... and I'm getting pissed. They were 2 feet from my reserve of sparkling tobacco. They left doors open... sheets ruffled... basically things were not in the order they were found.

And I'm still half naked, listening to discourse on how serious it is to turn in my friend. And I don't know where he is.

Being smarter(apparently) than the police, I found him first at the E.R. After taking his statement, no arrest was made.

Is there any way to prevent these kinds of things?

[Marco Renda]

Are you in the US or Canada? Laws are different in each country. Hell laws are different in each State.

Take Care and Peace
Marco

[FUNK4:20]

dont let anyone in your house without a restraining order. Dont tresspass and get cought (if it was you). Maybe get new friends if there gettin u in trouble and hurting each other physically. And #! DONT get Involved in other peoples stupid sh*t!

[Plode]

I live in the US state of Georgia. Have you heard of Barney Fife?

[Plode]

dont let anyone in your house without a restraining order. Dont tresspass and get cought (if it was you). Maybe get new friends if there gettin u in trouble and hurting each other physically. And #! DONT get Involved in other peoples stupid sh*t!

It wasn't me. That is why I feel it is wrong for me to provide personal details about myself at a decible audible to neighbors. They said they HAD to interview everyone in the area.

I got involved in nothing. I said goodbye to my friend around 5pm and around 9 police are bangning on my door. Well, let me rephrase, I involved myself in nothing. On the other hand, I did end up involved.

Of course, that's good advice and all. But I want to know whether this "obstruction of justice" is legitamite. On the basis that I am friends with someone who may have committed a crim, can an officer arrest me for obstruction of justice if I fail to give them permission to search my property?

State law says I do not have to carry ID unless I am driving. So then, why do I have to provide even more intimate details when I am on foot?

[FUNK4:20]

i have been through a few years of law enforcement. Always carry ur ID on you at all time's. If you know something and dont tell them and they find out--then yes u can get charged with it. But if u dont know anything then answer there questions, make them happy, let them snoop around and when they find nothing--tell them to have a nice day:)

[allmanjoy]

u might want to watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

it is worth know how to deal with police and your rights.
Otherwise go to a legal services bureau and find out if you are being harrassed

[Buffalo Bill]

I ghave found it is best to cooperate with the police, ut never, ever allow them to enter your house without a search warrant. If they keep to seemingly harrass you, it might be time to think about relocating. I used to live in Columbus and once had to deal with GBI in order to get a liquor license. I ran the most popular nite club in town and also dealt with the local leo. Both are a good ole boys club and if you piss 'em off, they will make your life miserable.

[claude_zachary420]

In the USA, u r REQUIRED to tell them basic information, such as name, address, and date of birth. It doesnt fall under ur right to remain silent.

[claude_zachary420]

U dont have to tell them where u r going or where u r coming from, etc... If they try to search u, make sure u r familiar with the rules of a "terry pat".

[claude_zachary420]

Guidelines for Saying No to Police Searches

http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_consent1.shtml

[Plode]

Thanks, guys. I need to find out how I can present my information in a way that is sensitive to my privacy. I'm going to call the police and ask them this. This has happened too many times. They didn't "on the record" suspect me of tresspassing... I was pulling teeth to even find out why they stopped us. Surely there is a way to indentify myself with enough credentials to a point where I don't actually have to speak. Or they could just give me the card.

Like I said, high crime area.

I will find the defintion of "terry pat"

It's not like I think they have it out for me, and it's not that I break the law, but these buggers are really irritating me. When you voice your rights they get spiteful. Maybe it's the andro :)

[claude_zachary420]

"I will find the defintion of "terry pat"

U can find the info u need on that erowid site. To try to sum it up... back in the 1970s in some major city at night, a cop saw a group of men hanging out in front of a store after it was closed. When these men saw the cop they pretending like they were moving on. The cop got suspicious and wanted to talk to them but wanted to make sure they had no weapons so he gave them a pat on the outter part of their clothes to feel for a weapon. The supreme court ruled that it was ok to do a check of the outter portions of a person in cases like that but they allowed it only in a narrow scope. The police can lightly frisk u for weapons only. They cannot reach into ur pockets, etc.... if they feel anything else.

This was later up in front of the supreme court in another case. This one from my state. A cop saw a known drug dealer coming out of a "known drug house". The cop approached him and gave him a terry pat but felt a little rock of crack in his pocket and reached in and took it out. The supreme court tossed it out ruling that even if the officer knew it was crack, reaching into the pocket was beyond the rules of a terry pat. He was not permitted to do it.

How does this play today? If a cop were to pull u over or come up to u on the street, they can lightly frisk the outter part of ur clothing/body. If they were to feel a bag of weed or some crack, they cant touch it. What they can and do do is say "y dont u empty ur pockets for me?" If u do, they can use it and u r busted. U dont have too. When asked this question, u should say "is that a request or an order?" If the cop says its a request, decline. If he says its an order, he has violated ur rights and cant use the evidence.

Yes, this was the short version.

[ThreeHit]

First, recognize that all law around the subject of identifying oneself to a law enforcement agent have to do with telling them your name, not showing them a form or document of identification. Even is states with so-called stop-and-identify statues, they cannot force you to show them any form of identification. If you are driving a car, you have already given your consent to showing identification whenever asked while driving your car, though.

There is no federal law on the matter; just a SC ruling (Hiibel case) that sets the upper limit for what states can do. It is different in different states. The Terry ruling holds that anyone stopped "under reasonable suspicion of committing a crime or about to commit a crime" may be arrested for refusing to identify themselves.

Georgia's "Stop and Identify" law is Code Ann. §16-11-36(b). As I read it, you must know the status of your interaction with the police in order to understand their authority. If it is a consensual interaction, you are not required to identify yourself. If it is a seizure, you are required to identify yourself. If it is an arrest, Miranda applies. The only real way to find out is to ask the law enforcement official. If you are told you cannot leave but you have not been Mirandized, then you are almost surely being held under Reasonable Suspicion (RS), which makes it a seizure interaction. As such, you would be required to identify yourself. Again, though, by telling them your name, not necessarily showing them identification. You're not obliged to tell them anything else. Lying about your identification to a cop is against the law, too, by the way.

The best source of information about how law enforcement views the rules for searches and what the limits are on their powers is to read up on some of their message boards. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, even as I type this, there are thousands of cops sitting on hundreds of message boards having discussions about their tactics and strategies. It's just as big a gold mine of information as our boards are for them. The funny thing is, not even the cops can make sense of all of the complexities of our ridiculous laws.

On their boards, you can find out all sorts of information about how cops use the rules to trap the unwary. One thing you'll find is scads of cops who believe they are at risk form every single person they encounter and will do a Terry pat search of virtually every person they encounter. Though there are other cops who point out that this is wrong.

If you go in, you should also get emotionally ready to read an old standard cop phrase over and over and over again: "It's all in how you write up the report." To me, it's code word for how to lie on an official document.

The best part is watching cops get mad at each other. Cops are an amazingly diverse groups of people, just like the rest of us. Some of them appear to be bordering on mental instability based on the rage they express to each other on their message boards. Some are articulate and fair and open-minded, too.

Anyway, it's interesting stuff to read, IMO.

[Plode]

Thanks guys. My main issue is finding a way to identify myself jeopardizing my privacy.

[Max Rockatansky]

About a month ago, someone in my house was suspected of a crime. Police officers asked me to come outside and demanded I give my name. Initially I refused. They were asking for my ssn, dob, full name and the lot. I
also live in a high-crime area.

They said they were going to charge me with obstruction of justice. I relented.

First, you don't not have to exit your house to talk with the police...
Unless the police can see/hear a crime occurring in your house and/or have an active warrant they cannot enter at will...
Beware though police will lie about this....
Secondly you aren't required to tell the police your SS#, as far as I know..
Just say I cant remember, and don't let em harras ya about it...

Fast forward. Me and a friend are walking to a gas station and a police officer stops us. She begins asking us details about where we were and where we were going. Again, they asked for all of my personal information.

I said "I do not like giving my information out for everyone to hear, may I come closer to you so I do not have to speak as loud". She said "Just tell me". I spoke quietly and she could not understand me. I then requested to take that blasted card out of her hand and fill it out for her.... so that my personal information stays mine. In the end, I bellowed my social for all to hear. And it turned out that someone reported a tresspassing 2 blocks away.

Does anyone know any way that I can not be charged with a crime for keeping my mouth shut when I am not suspected of a crime? or if I am suspected of a crime?

Even more recently, 2 people I know hurt each other physically. One of them ran from the where the incident occurred to the emergency room. The other waited for help to arrive. People that were nearby reported that one of the people was a good friend of mine. The same officer that stopped me on suspicion of trespassing... responded to this incident. She hears my name and knows where I live. So I get a knock.

No, actually. I'm in the shower, naked. My family answers the door, and let's the police in because they are repeating, "we know he's in there!" I towel off, get dressed(a towel and a tshirt) and watch the police open closets and look under beds... and I'm getting pissed. They were 2 feet from my reserve of sparkling tobacco. They left doors open... sheets ruffled... basically things were not in the order they were found.

And I'm still half naked, listening to discourse on how serious it is to turn in my friend. And I don't know where he is.

Being smarter(apparently) than the police, I found him first at the E.R. After taking his statement, no arrest was made.

Is there any way to prevent these kinds of things?






Thanks guys. My main issue is finding a way to identify myself jeopardizing my privacy.
Just give the police your name address and D.O.B. that's all they need to I.D. you, cops always try to push for more info from you...




Is there any way to prevent these kinds of things?

There is a way to prevent these things but you wont like the answer....


My family answers the door, and let's the police in because they are repeating, "we know he's in there!"
Ok First if all take control of access to your house, use a double keyed dead bolt and lock it after anyone comes in or out, anything less is lazyness and only you can be blamed for someone getting in your house...

In addition teach your family that the police cannot enter without a warrant..

About a month ago, someone in my house was suspected of a crime.

Even more recently, 2 people I know hurt each other physically. One of them ran from the where the incident occurred to the emergency room. The other waited for help to arrive. People that were nearby reported that one of the people was a good friend of mine. The same officer that stopped me on suspicion of trespassing... responded to this incident. She hears my name and knows where I live. So I get a knock.
This the core of your problem right there man....
If your "friends" are getting arrested, fighting, excessively drinking, then you will be in trouble too, thats life...
I know its not easy to let go of friends that you have known for awhile but sometimes you just outgrow people, nothing against your friends, but people who bring trouble to MY door aren't called friend around these parts...


MAD MAX

[wildman]

Where can one find these message boards that the cops post on? Is there some addy that you can post? I would be interested to view these and find out any info I could on how to protect myself. peace, wildman

[Plode]

Where can one find these message boards that the cops post on? Is there some addy that you can post? I would be interested to view these and find out any info I could on how to protect myself. peace, wildman
Here's one I found. Prepare to be categorically termed a "dirtbag" if you consume certain things :)
here it is:
http://forums.officer.com/forums/index.php
And have a stress ball handy.