Long time coming

[farmboy]

Hi folks, I know it's been some time since Pain Pal's experimental garden came off,but have I got an answer for a question I noted that Zardoz had proposed concerning an incremental or graduated harvest. I recently grew a five gallon soiless bucket grow with a variation of a hauwain/afghan cross that a friend of mine has developed.This was achieved using top and bottom feeding (manually,groan,groan). When harvest approached, I realized that my expected yield was going to fall far from the quantity required for the patients,so I proposed a continual, or incremental harvest. I cut the top, or apical tip colas while they were 3/4 developed,and trichomes were still clear. This allowed for a massive secondary growth to take place while I did a 10 day flush with DNF CLEAR. After this cut was made, I nailed the girls with 2 days of feeding, both foliar and top/bottom feed, followed by clear1/2 strength,and ph water foliar flush. the girls responded with an enormous bud girth increase, and trichome development. Then, although I withheld nutes, I did THREE more of these 'mini-cuts'. Although curing is ongoing,and final figures are not in, I estimate that harvest was increased by 50% or better. Lots of happy,smiling patients.I dont't recommend this for indoor hydroponics, but for all you dirt grow and outdoor guys, this is a great way to bump up yield,and get those lower growth buds to stand up and be counted. I can't understand why this forum is not utilized more as we all want to improve our systems and it's FUN to grow better. Expect more posts from this ol' boy.

[Marco Renda]

Well how about you submitting this as an article? Maybe include pics if you have them. I'm sure the TY mag readers would like to see what you are doing

Take Care and Peace
Marco

[onus]

I think this is a fascinating topic. In my experience I have not done as you have but I have, many times, cut the top cola (whoops, slipping into Spanish/SW US slang) at or a week before scheduled harvest, then let the rest of the plant mature and take it down on schedule or a week or two beyond. And there's no question in my mind that it did positively affect the yield.

I believe that the trichomes "mature" from the top down. Considering that an early harvest's clear trichomes can, essentially, give you the 'up' high you want from a sativa rather than the 'couchlock' high from an indica, this might be a good way to get both effects from the same plant, by harvesting trichomes at different stages of maturity. I mention that as an added plus to increasing your yield.

So, my point is that I think this technique is well worth more investigation.

onus

[pflover]

Thanx for posting your results.

I have one question. Do you consider it "safe" to spray you plants in bud?

[saeon-tsion]

we're all for better growing; i think that many med patients, especially those in states/provinces/countries where their rights are not entirely protected and their families are at risk.....tend not to want to get into too much detail about their self-sufficiency efforts in public forums.

However, many of us can benefit greatly from discussions like this as long as we're all smart about it. And frankly, if LEO were to come to a thread like this and attempt to go after legitimate medicinal users regardless of other factors.....shame on them.

[Pain Pal]

Any input on increasing quantity with our loosing quality is much appreciated and helpful.
That sounds like a great idea you have there.If I get my grow going again in the future I.ll be trying that out.
Your TY bro.
John

[salmayo]

I've been pondering my Haze Sativa as a continuous harvest plant. I have two and I'm feeling out the performance of the later maturing of the two. At 11Light/13Dark it still is producing noticable growth at what is now the beginning of week 9. I've been harvesting samples every two to three days while pruning the plant back to make room for two more of it's clones. Between the two plants I've had meds for a month solid, at about a gram a day and the later one is holding it's own at a stable output and buds population.

My thought is this, If you use a later maturing variety that flowers long anyway and use a reduced light cycle like 11/13 to produce potency, it is possible to get ongoing production with continuous potency. The efficiency seems low using 175 watts of light at 43.75 watts/FT^2 to get 30 to 60 grams a month for the second and third month of a planned 3 month flowering (~ 0.7 grams per watt over 2 to 3 months).

I did light cycle experiments with NL#5 trying to find if there was a intermediate crossover point where potency was retained and faster more vegetative type growth rate was occuring. The experiment resulted in faster growth with shorter night periods, but the potency cutout, even thought the trichome coverred buds looked inviting.

With this later maturing Sativa, the plant is capable of producing faster growth at longer dark periods that also produce good potency. The potency takes about a month to start, but once the plant finds it's equalibrium and settles down into flower, the potency is good on newer growth and great on older more mature growth.

One thing I have noted is that removing buds while leaving the node and leaf on the stem, does seem to retain tip dominance, but without a tip. And that removing the node and leaf stock induces more typical pruning responce growth, but removing leaves has the affect of producing new bud rather than leaf growth, resulting in leaf reduction over time that can limit the output of the plant.

I just added 60 watts of F20T12 Wide Spectrum floro lower side lighting to the 175 watt MH on top of the 2x2 foot box expanded to 30x30 inches now for the added lights, and noted new grow on all the green bottom notes within three days. The temperature didn't rise to much, so last night I added another 60 watts and am going to watch the temperatures for another 3 days, and then hopefully add 30 to 60 more watts to balance out my target sprectrum at 225 to 255 watts total.

If the added light produces more growth than I've been seeing, and it seems to, I think I'll hold the box dimensions to 30x30x30 inches and replicate the set-up using another box to get more production from this supposedly difficult to grow objectionally late maturing semi-odorless Sativa.

[salmayo]

I just added 60 watts of F20T12 Wide Spectrum floro lower side lighting to the 175 watt MH on top of the 2x2 foot box expanded to 30x30 inches now for the added lights, and noted new grow on all the green bottom notes within three days. The temperature didn't rise to much, so last night I added another 60 watts and am going to watch the temperatures for another 3 days, and then hopefully add 30 to 60 more watts to balance out my target sprectrum at 225 to 255 watts total.

If the added light produces more growth than I've been seeing, and it seems to, I think I'll hold the box dimensions to 30x30x30 inches and replicate the set-up using another box to get more production from this supposedly difficult to grow objectionally late maturing semi-odorless Sativa.I made a mistake there, my target spectrum wattage is 325 to 355 watts (not 225 to 255 watts).

And I did drop the floor shelf in my flower box by 6 inches making the dimensions 2.5x2.5x3 cubic feet.

I also harvested the earlier maturing plant by stripping it of buds (should dry to about 8 more grams) and I'm keeping it in the flowering area to see if it produces much more. Both these older plants are now on the 2.5 foot headspace (upper) shelf at the back of the box and two fresh 30 inch Haze plants are now occupying the lower front shelf with 36 inches of head space.

I'm toying with the idea of reducing the flower cycle to 10.75Light/13.25Dark, but the more balanced spectrum might speed the plants up enough without it, so I'll wait and watch till the end of November to decide if the new spectrum changes suggest if I should turn the lights up, down or just leave them at 11/13.

One things for sure, I'm getting a lot more production on the bottom of the plants now, and these next 2 plants should be my most productive trials with this Haze Sativa in this cubic flowering space. If I can just keep them from stretching too much without more light on top, I think the 175 Watts MH on top and 120 to 180 Watts Wide Spectrum fluorescents on the bottom/sides should be optimum for this space in terms of spectral distribution and volumetric light intensity, and hopefully will produce a fairly solid canopy up to 2.5 to 3 feet deep.

[onus]

Salmayo:

I think you're on the right track and by experimenting and observing you'll learn a lot.

One suggestion: try revegging as a way to increase yields. My experience has been that the yield from a revegged plant is at least 50% more than one the first time around. You'll produce tons of branches by harvesting the original crop, and you start with a well-developed root mass. The trick is to leave enough sun leaves on the plant to allow it to recover from the shock of the harvest. And, some strains do this better than others.

I've grown Haze, the Haze Special from KC Brains, and if your Haze is like that one you could go seemingly forever before the buds are ready to harvest. 11-12 weeks is what mine seemed to like. I didn't really think it was worth it so I let that strain go. It also stretched unmercifully in my small space and yielded poorly. Nice pot, though, with an unusual peanut butter taste. Honest.

Good luck.

onus

[smokinbasser]

I am going to toss my opinion in on foliar feeding while buds are developing. IMO BAD IDEA!! Too much of a chance for mold to set in, buds do not have the airflow within the bud structure to prevent conditions optimal for mold to start.

[salmayo]

Thanks for the input.

I do too much experimenting, but I figure dialing in any plant is an ongoing experimental process, and this time around it's the never ending Haze Sativa. I do grow what I consider "Qualitatively", looking for multiple results or reactions, rather than "Quantitatively" pursuing the yeild. But yeild is still one of the factors I'm pursuing, it's just secondary in the short term learning curve here. And there is less info on Outdoor Sativa type plants grows Indoors. As you yourself did, most people consider the Haze to much trouble Indoors and move on.

I agree for most strains, that revegging increases productivity greatly. I reveg good plants more often than not and have even been able to reveg males. I even bit the bullet and did a 24 hour duration rotation on my light cylce this weekend for shifting my 11/13 timing by 12 hours, since it gave me more time to modify my flower box all day/night. This should cause a minor growth spurt in the this week 10 Haze, but one day isn't much, especially when only the light time was extended and the dark periods remained at 13 hours.

Short duration revegging 24/0 for 3 to 10 days induces more budding without too much new leaf growth and this works 3 times before a longer duration full revegging is needed for more leaf area to get produced and renew the plants full productivity.

With the Hazes seemingly perpetual flowering, revegging seems to be happening to some extent on it's own, and it would be nice to find a way to allow it a fast growth rate with good to acceptable potency, and even though the potency isn't as high as the Hazes full potential, it is still quite good and compares well with most strains after week 6 in with my timing/environment. And as you know, it continues for up to another 8 weeks of production.

You mentioned having enough Sun Leaves, and pruning or not pruning then is an issue. FIMing would suggest itself as a stimulating Sun Leaf leaving solution, but I'm breeding these plants and avoid stress while making seed as much as I can.

Rather than using some different pruning/cutting method, I'm hoping improving the spectrum and adding more light in total will bring the production up as it has and hopefully continue to do so up to 180 watts of supplimentary bottom floros.

The fan leaf and pruning/cutting issues will be next, but for now I'm gonna have too much fun this month with spectrums and timing, while nipping back this "seemingly forever" flowering plant.

Thanks again for the input. :)