Water Cure

[salmayo]

Water Curing is simply soaking Cannabis in Water to remove water soluable compounds from the plant matter, leaving behind water insoluable compounds such as resins including THC.

I haven't found much information out there on Water Curing, and what little I've found often dissagrees with what I do myself.

Some versions are just a quick soak and rinse of fresh cut material. While others sound more like ferment type processes similar to steps in Hash/Oil Making I've read.

What I like to do is completely dry my harvest and put about an quarter ounce, loosely packed, into a kettle size Tea Strainer Ball. Then I place it in at least a gallon of tap water to soak and replace the tap water every 3 hours or so, and leaving it in the fridge when I sleep or can't keep the water refreshed. After 3 or 4 days I gently spread it out in hemispherical strainer over a fan with paper towels under and over it to avoid dust. It dries in about a day and is very smooth and mild. It shrinks up a bit, but to me it's worth it.

[dankgirl2]

I take my plants just cut and put them in a cooler filled with room temp water, each day I change the water for seven days then dry in a dehydrator till dry. ALL CURED!
Nice smooth and minimal amount of shrinkage when dry.
dg2

[Yodude]

I do it exactly the same as Dankgirl. Cut it, soak it 7 days with clean water each day then dry and smoke. Probably done last 3-5 entire grows this way....never a problem .
Yodude

[Raoul Duke]

I like it when I get stuck with poorly flushed black market meds. Has actually made some unsmokable very pleasent...

[pflover]

"Water Cure:

Immediately upon harvest, the plants are placed in a tub of water for a period of seven (7) days. The water is changed daily. The affect of this process is to remove chlorophyl and other contaminants that we really don't need. Weed is then put onto drying screens. Once it is dry, it is ready to go without need for any further curing.

This is typically done by commercial growers who have a lot of product to deal with, so they place their harvests in a ditch full of water and hope for the best - hence the term, "ditchweed"." - mdp of oregongreenfree.com

the water curing IMPO is most useful when you are out of meds and want to get something smoke able in a reasonably short time. it is not worth doing for your whole crop and is not the same quality in taste or high but the high is usually not tooo compromised.

ok the technique i use is as follows:

take a large bucket or coolar or other good soaking container and fill it with tepid to luke warm water, take your freshly cut and manecured bud and tie strings attached to waights to the stems. submerge the buds completely being careful not to let them touch the sides of the container and to not disturb the water too greatly there after. then let them soke for 12-24 hours (i have heard mean longer methods and good rational for using them but have had very functional results with this quick method and seed is the only reason i can personally seed of using water cure). anyway, after the soak take the buds out, hang them in front of a fan and let them dry over the next 3-5 days. the seem to dry out faster than normal air dry. when they are dry they are as cured as they will get but very very smooth and easily consumed. producing decent quality smoke if you are out of meds only 4-6 days after harvest as compaired with 7-10 at the earliest for a good air dry.

best of luck.

Ally

[SSoG]

my personal taste, i like my buds cured the good old fasioned way,

when i lived in KY, an old original hemp farmer turned tobacco farmer, told me that when they harvested the hemp, that they then submerged the entire crop into cow ponds and pools of water,and the like, this made the hemp fiber easyer to work with and allso improved the finished products. hence the term, 'ditch weed'.
in between each row of tobacco drying in his barn, were another row of 10 foot KY red bud plants hanging and drying, so i believe what he said was true.

this is where i believe that this bad myth got crossed over from curing hemp, to curing high potency cannabis.
if you like it, hey, roll with it, iv smoked water cure a couple times and like i said, ill have my regular old dryed buds , thank you very much.

peace &1 softshadesofgreen

[Roy]

I will often "Water Cure" my buds if I plan on using them for edibles. I find it takes a lot of the "green taste" out of the end product. My method is very easy and works very well.

1-Put bud in Mason Jar
2-fill jar slowly with fresh water
3-change water each day for seven days
4-dry bud after seven days (I use a dehydrator)
5-enjoy!

:D

[pflover]

yeah i do a bit of water curing you could say on my leaf before i make butter out of it. definitely useful for medibles and oil products but not so great for end bud quality impo.

[Marco Renda]

I find this very interesting

Take Care and Peace
Marco

[salmayo]

I'd like to thank one and all for your contributions on this topic! :D

I think it's safe to say, thanks to your information, that theirs more info posted here on the topic of Water Curing than I've found on the rest of the internet.

The TY communitty does it again! :D

No wonder I'm hooked on this place.

[salmayo]

Water Curing is simply soaking Cannabis in Water to remove water soluable compounds from the plant matter, leaving behind water insoluable compounds such as resins including THC.

I haven't found much information out there on Water Curing, and what little I've found often dissagrees with what I do myself.

Some versions are just a quick soak and rinse of fresh cut material. While others sound more like ferment type processes similar to steps in Hash/Oil Making I've read.

What I like to do is completely dry my harvest and put about an quarter ounce, loosely packed, into a kettle size Tea Strainer Ball. Then I place it in at least a gallon of tap water to soak and replace the tap water every 3 hours or so, and leaving it in the fridge when I sleep or can't keep the water refreshed. After 3 or 4 days I gently spread it out in hemispherical strainer over a fan with paper towels under and over it to avoid dust. It dries in about a day and is very smooth and mild. It shrinks up a bit, but to me it's worth it.
I'm afraid I had to log off in a hurry went I started this thread and had not quite finish. (Do I ever??? :o )


PERSONALLY:

Like I posted above my method differs from most, but I have a slightly different goal than most, which is to remove as much of the water soluable compounds a possible from the smoke, and unlike most, I'm willing to sacrafice finish weight and even some potency.

What I didn't include in the above post, was that I completely dry the material first, in order to rupture as many of the cell walls as possible to make their contents more extractable. I'm also trying to dislodge as few trichome (resin filled) gland heads as possible, which happens if you freeze the material to rupture the cell walls instead.

I test the material for (near) complete dryness by gently pressing the stems against a finger with my thumbnail, to see if it snaps rather than dents or bends. Once the stems are dry enough to be at the snap stage I then soak as described for 3 or 4 days in renewed fresh tap water of fair quality, but I prefer Brita filterred water if I can manage it, and especially for the last soak and rinse.

Once the material has soaked, I again dry it over my scrubber fan's filter, for odor control and an fairly low air movement rate. I do this for 1 or more days depending on how long it takes to get back to the stem snap stage, depending on the weather, humidity and temperature.

Once the material is at the snap stage, I test burn about a quart gram in a water pipe...

AND IF THE STEMS HAVE TOO MUCH MOISTURE IN THEM THEY CAN NOT ONLY CRACKLE, BUT POP EXPOSSIVELY, as if a seed explosed or something. This seems to be way too similar to the effect of explosive steam inside popcorn when it pops! The calyx and leaf material seems dry enough, but more moisture is still trapped in the stems, which are greyer than the comparatively greener calyx and leaf material.

At this point, further curing using usual bag and/or jar-burp methods may be used, and the moisture in the stems seems to normalize with the calyx and leaves if stored in a closed container, jar or closed plastic bag.

Once the material passes the test burn without objectionalbe behavior (without exploding, and preferrably without crackling), I deem it at the "SILENT BURN" stage and store it in sealed containers, and check it only occasionally as many people do during LONG TERM STORAGE/CURING.

I believe that my personally method here (above) removes more weight than others, but I don't consider it any wanted materials lost since I only want the THC/resins, and I don't think a significant amount of the THC/resin is lost with my method. And the smoke with my Haze strain is deceptively smooth and I only perceive a tickle at the back of my throat preceeding feeling relief about 2 minute later at most.

I haven't compared the Before and After Dry Weights for this method. but will attempt to in the near future and post my findings for my personal method as described above.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first time I burn tested my water cured buds with my personally method described above, the bud crackle ominously and then as I applied more flame it exploded, popping the buds out of the bowl, inspiring me to startledly duck for fear of flying debris.

I hope no one suffers this fate for lack of this info in my intro post to this thread, and would like to personally thank Brother Manard for is kind words of cautionary counsel concerning THE BOOK OF ARMAMENTS as to the workings of the HOLY HAND GRENADE (and thanks to Monty Python and the Holy Grail for Brother Manard... ..."Right! One Rabbit stew coming up!... "). :p

Thanks again to one and all for your contributions to this thread, I found them very informative, especially the comments about your personal practices and experiences. :D

[pflover]

Like I posted above my method differs from most, but I have a slightly different goal than most, which is to remove as much of the water soluable compounds a possible from the smoke, and unlike most, I'm willing to sacrafice finish weight and even some potency.

That is the only reason I have ever heard of for water curing other than it produces a finished product in about 1.5 weeks instead of 4. Furthermore if it is done properly weight should ALWAYS be sacrificed (see removal of water solubles equals reduction of total mass). However, in most cases the potency is proportionally increased if everything is done correctly and with care because the total amount of cannabinoids should stay about the same while total mass is reduced. ;)

Interestingly I personally find I get significantly better removal of water solubles but submerging still living and thus still circulating buds instead of dried ones. After all dried plant matter under magnification appears to have intact cellular stuctures. Just try looking a dried leaf or lemon peal.

[salmayo]

That is the only reason I have ever heard of for water curing other than it produces a finished product in about 1.5 weeks instead of 4. Furthermore if it is done properly weight should ALWAYS be sacrificed (see removal of water solubles equals reduction of total mass). However, in most cases the potency is proportionally increased if everything is done correctly and with care because the total amount of cannabinoids should stay about the same while total mass is reduced. ;)

Interestingly I personally find I get significantly better removal of water solubles (buy) submerging still living and thus still circulating buds instead of dried ones. After all dried plant matter under magnification appears to have intact cellular stuctures. Just try looking a dried leaf or lemon peal.

Just when I think, "There now that post was monsterously large enough to suite my ill repute.", TY's truesty Cannabis Dominatrix staightens me out with a bit of the old BUSINESS MAN'S LUNCH. :rolleyes:

Weight reduction is my primary goal, but since many, and especially other than Med Growers, may find the idea of reducing weight objectionable from a veiwpoint other than my own, I'm sure I've overstated the concept a bit.

Ideally you would want to reduce the vegatable matter down to the point were it is little more than a fiberous pulp (cellulose) calyx/leaf/stem structures laced with resin (~resin paper mache matrix?) and intact enough to still hold the trichome gland heads, without loosing any heads.

I agree that the PROPORTIONAL THC by weight is increased, but I was referring to some, and hopefully neglectibly small, loss in finished absolute weight of THC compared to the original absolute weight of the material, due to some hopefully small amount of trichome heads detaching.

I admit that the cell walls seem to be staying annoyingly intact as barrier to the interior of the cells and perhaps the effect may be more pronounced in the larger scale structures of the leaf, but it seems that the significantly faster drying time of the finished material is indicating that the remaining compounds and cellulose structure are more open and allow faster release of water. This is less pronounced in the stems (HOLE...LEEEE HAND GRENADES BATMAN!), which still seem to dry much faster than non-water cured stem.

I'm tempted to try a freeze then soak method, but the effects of this stated often in Bubble Hash making information indicate that this would cause greater trichome head detatchment, although the breaking of the cell walls from freezing cellular materials is well know and would be to me highly desirable. But again, the potential for loosing additional numbers of precious THC containing trichome heads would seem, to me, to be a major deturant. And the LAST thing I need is inspiration to occupy myself with devising a method to save and reclaim these precious little gems, although using collecting sized mesh Bubble Bags on the outside of the wire mesh strainer presents itself as a obvious option (Now I've gone and done it anyway haven't I! But one of my usual design criterias is to devise methods using more easily obtainable household tools/materials.)

Oh well, there goes the Get the Hell Out bell. Gotta run...

Thanks as usual for the always valuable input PF, despite my usual penchant for arguement and debate. (Thorny Little Rose aren't I! :o ) ;)

[pflover]

Just to be clear, are your saying that water cure bud that was still fresh and wet at the beginning of being water cured dries out slower that water cured bud that was dry already before being water cured? i have not tested this so do not know. I do know that water cured bud that was still fresh and wet when water curing started dries out faster that bud going through the regular process but have never compared it to already dry bud going through the water curing process.

Anyway thanx for the clarification. :)

[salmayo]

Just to be clear, are your saying that water cure bud that was still fresh and wet at the beginning of being water cured dries out slower that water cured bud that was dry already before being water cured? i have not tested this so do not know. I do know that water cured bud that was still fresh and wet when water curing started dries out faster that bud going through the regular process but have never compared it to already dry bud going through the water curing process.

I was pondering just such a Fresh vs. Dried before Water Cure test, using trimmed leaf material left over from my next batch of cuttings. I figure the best way to make a final comparison is to make 2 equal weights of cut up leaf, and then Water Cure one Fresh while the other dries. Then dry the Water Cure Fresh material and weigh it, while Water Curing the PreDried Material. Then weigh the PreDried material and compare weights.

Recording drying times would be easier if the samples were dried at the same time, but it would be harder to schedule. But without doing my usual burn test method for snap, crackle, pop, it may not result in a true final drying time qualitative comparison.

Unfortunately, I'm just starting a fresh set of Haze females into flower and they will probably take about 2 months to produce any decent potency samples worth taking enough to do a Water Cure Fresh vs. PreDried bud comparison.

I'm presuming that Predrying produces wrinkle and fold damage in the shrivelled up cell membrains, perhaps not visible in the dried state, and that Rehydrating such material causes uneven rehydration and expansions which also open up gaps in the cell walls. Allowing for faster drying of the Predried material compared to Water Curing Fresh material. Assuming Fresh material would have to have cells rupture/explode due to osmotic pressure over longer time and result in less cell wall barrier reduction to water extraction of inner cell compounds.

I'm wondering if there is any Fresh Green Tea vs. Dried Green Tea information out there that might shed some light on the extraction values for such Fresh vs. Dried materials. I would think that faster and/or more complete water extraction of Fresh or Dried Green Tea would have some corelation with Water Curing extraction of Cannabis. I would think that the faster the Green Tea colors the water with Fresh vs. Dried Green Tea, would be a good indication of extraction rates.

Or maybe, a Fresh Oregano experiment would shed some light on this. :p

I keep thinking that Dried Tea would extract faster than Fresh Tea?!.

I'm Water Curing a sample of Dried Haze with a Pre-Water Cure dry weight of 4.9 grams, and should have a After-Cure dry weight in about 3 days. Which will allow calculating a rough dried weight reduction percentage estimate (for airy Haze buds anyway).

[pflover]

careful using tea as a comparison... that is extracted hot and not cold, usually. My theory on why fresh might work better than dry is that it is still alive to be actively doing all the biological processes involved with fluid exchange in the plant. Once dried tho you are relying just on pure passive osmotic processes alone. Fresh bud would actively take part in its cure where dry would just sit there like a lump letting everything just happen to it.

[dankgirl2]

I always use fresh never dried. Drying it before water doesn't work, the cell walls have already shrunk when dried first. Lets say for instance you fag out the plant material in water for seven days (changing daily) before drying. Now the plant cell has lost it's rigidness and is all relaxed, then you dry it. Vow ala, there you are, after drying it now, it isn't as shrunk as like drying and then curing.
Just my own thoughts and approved by me.
dg2

[salmayo]

Thanks Dankgirl, this thread has certainly given me a lot to ponder. ;)

PF, I always do cold extracted Tea, which influences my views I'm sure. But, your are right that Traditional Tea is a different critter, being that it's heat dried or steamed before drying to destroy certain compounds and help preserve others. And since I can't find any information on fresh vs. dried tea extraction, so much for that road.

I'm still fascinated with the effects of Fresh vs. Predried Water Curing and will try to do a weight loss percentage comparison of the 2 methods... ...eventually. :rolleyes:

My thoughts on "biological processes involved with fluid exchange in the plant" is that the plant doesn't sweet out compounds, even when touching leaves weep water as up close to the lights or other heat source. So, it seems to me that the plant's transpiration process compensate for osmotic pressure to some extent to retain both vascular (sap) and inner cell compounds under normal conditions, not that being submerged is normal for the plant.

Also, it occurs to me that during the PreDrying process that the usual compound conversion processes for curing at occuring to some extent.

I'm wondering if the "pure passive osmotic" effects could be increased with recuring and drying, perhaps a few times.

I've seen submerged leaves of an otherwise normal plant, hanging down into water, with at first apparently no ill effect, then rapid deterioration with softening/expansion, and shortly thereafter molding/rotting. Would you be trying to get to this deterioration point and then drying to halt the process???

Submerged stems on cuttings can show similar signs of deterioration on some submerged parts and especially on the cut or any damaged parts.

It just seems to me that little would happen until this deterioration point which may or may not be uniform over the plant, and that once at this point molding/rotting would be a great enough danger to deter me personally somewhat.

I'm attracted on the other hand to the Pre-Dried "pure passive osmotic" method, because after a sort period of rehydration the curing process seems to progress at a fairly unform rate. And that ending the process just short of the deterioration/mold point, is the drying point I'm looking for.

I know I'm biases by the point that I started Water Curing about a decade ago to clean up rather nasty Brick/Mex, and knowing the habit of this to be packed with Coke Cola and the like, I was immediately impressed with the visible falling column of Coke Cola colored compounds collecting at the bottom of the gallon sized glass "Sun Tea" container I was using.

I haven't seen any info on this deterioration point and/or if it should be avoided to allowed to progess to some further point. Could any one offer any insight on this aspect??? Any input would be greatly appreciated, especially if the process should be stopped before, at or, how long after this point or at what point, if identifiable, the process should be stopped.

In the short term I'll try and measure percentage weight loss values for PreDried, and I'm planning on doing a Recured measurement to see if a second rehydration and curing adds any significant weight reduction to the process.

Later I'm definitely going experiment with the Fresh method. You ALL have definitely, inspired me to look into that. Thanks again for your contributions to this thread! :D

[lequebecfume]

I am now using a three day method that is just as good as the seven day method.

Change the water 3 times a day for three days and dry as normal.

First use reverse osmosis of overnight off-gassed tap water if yours is good.

Cover the weed in water and hold down with a non reactive plastic or wooden spoon.

Do not cover and keep in a cool dark space.

I have used this method for a few years and it by far the fastest and best.

Peace and good curing.

LEQ

[salmayo]

As I posted on January 25th, 2008 :

I'm Water Curing a sample of Dried Haze with a Pre-Water Cure dry weight of 4.9 grams, and should have a After-Cure dry weight in about 3 days. Which will allow calculating a rough dried weight reduction percentage estimate (for airy Haze buds anyway).
I drained and dried the sample over low air flow in a wire mesh hemispherical strainer with a small paper towel disk under and another above to avoid collecting dust on the material. After 24 hours I examined the sample and it passed my stem snap test, so I preceeded to take an initial dried weight value.

Pre-Water Cure Dry weight: 4.9 grams
Post-Water Cure Dry weight: 3.1 grams
Post-Water Cure Reduction Weight: 1.8 grams (roughly)

Retained Weight Percentage: 63%
Reduced Weight Percentage: 37%

So for 4.9 grams of fairly airy Haze buds harvested at the 20th week of flower, loosely packed in an 3 Inch Tea Diffuser Mesh Strainer with a volume of roughly 180cc or 10.75 cubic inches, soaked for 4 days in repeatedly changed tap water and then dried with low air flow at a temperature of 68F to 70F and roughly 75% humidity: roughly 1/3 of the original dry weight was removed by the PreDried Water Cure method I use, which is about what I would have guessed based on the rapid shrinkage observed overnight (over a day) from the final dripping wet to then final dried materials appearance.

An interesting note on THC % by weight: Assuming 0% THC lose, a 1/3 reduction in total weight of a 20% (fairly high) THC sample, would result in a 30% (World Record Contender) THC sample. :cool:

I will measure the weight of this sample to see if it dries further and post those numbers if their is a difference, or at least post that additional drying time didn't result in notable addition reduction in final dry weight.

Once I am satisfied that the dry weight is stable, I will then Re-Water Cure the sample an additional day to see what affects rehydration has and observe the condition of the material to see if any deterioration affects occur and to observe for molding, which would be a limiting factor. Perhaps it would have an advantage to rehydrating and drying on a daily basis say 4 times (8 days total) than on 4 day long hydration on an roughly equal mold endangerment basis. Since this sample has alread been soaked for 4 days, only one additional day of soaking will be tested for fear of molding the material.

In my initial experiments in 1998, with Water Curing dry Brick/Mex sampled, I observed that floating material in water resulted in saturation to the point of sinking after 3 to 4 days, and that the sample water stayed clear at that point, and additionally that the water turned murky as if from a microbial bloom after that point. At least with dried material, apparently the point at which the material goes from free floating (no strainer weight) to sinking, marks the point at which the sample should be dried (if not sooner). 3 days seems to be the safe soaking time limit, with up to 4 days being possible with 3 hour water change rotations. I personally recommend 72 hours total soak time based on this observation.

In order to cure 3 smaller samples I wished to keep separate, I'm currently trying to use coffee filter paper between the sample in the wire mesh strainer to keep them separate. Hopefully the filter paper wont deteriorate badly, so this is still a usable option.

(There, that's large enough to give most people a migrain as usual! :eek: )

[salmayo]

I am now using a three day method that is just as good as the seven day method.

Change the water 3 times a day for three days and dry as normal.

First use reverse osmosis of overnight off-gassed tap water if yours is good.

Cover the weed in water and hold down with a non reactive plastic or wooden spoon.

Do not cover and keep in a cool dark space.

I have used this method for a few years and it by far the fastest and best.

Peace and good curing.

LEQ
Interesting note on the degassed water!

I personally use regular old chlorinated tap water of low iron stain value, except for a final 3 dip rinse/soak in warm distilled water to get rid of as much tap flavor as possible and to warm the material for faster drying, not that it seems to need this to speed up the rapid overnight main drying time.

Thanks for the input! ;)

[salmayo]

Pre-Water Cure Dry weight: 4.9 grams
Post-Water Cure Dry weight: 2.8 grams
Post-Water Cure Reduction Weight: 2.1 grams (roughly)

Retained Weight Percentage: 57%
Reduced Weight Percentage: 43%

That's looking an awful lot like a reduction of (about) 1/2 the original dry weight to me. :rolleyes:

I rehydrated this sample again last night as planned to test the effects of a repeat Water Cure on a dried sample, and will pull it again tonight and redry it again to see if it had any mentionable effect. It wouldn't be too suprising if it had an Post-Water Cure dry weight of 3.1 grams again due to water retention after the one day low air movement fan drying method again, but a slight additional decrease wouldn't be too surprising either. I guess we'll just have to wait a few days and see what happens.

I almost hope there isn't any further reduction in final dry weight with repeat rehydrations and dryings, just so I wont be tempted to redo these two ounces of Dry Water Cured I already am pining over like a proud Poppa! :p

Or at least survival rations for the next 2 months at least, until the Haze starts putting out some serious quality buds to supply a 1/2 ounce or so worth experimenting with, comparing the Fresh vs. Dry methods for weights.

I can't find a reference I recall on Water Curing water temperatures, which should effect extraction rate and final values somewhat. If anyone has any information on this it would be greatly appreciated. ;)

Also does anyone have any information on the sublimation temperature of THC and/or resins in water? I know some resin sublimates in boiling water, but I don't know at what temperature this starts. I assume that it's the melting point of the resin past the plastic or metal stage to the liquid stage, or simply just the Melting Point. I'll try and do some research on Hash/Oil making to see if I can find this information, but if anyone can offer it, it would be very interesting to know this for considering Water Curing water temperature ranges. ;)

I'm seriously considering the effect of using 90F to 100F water on the process of both the Fresh and Dry methods of Water Curing, but wonder if even higher temperature of say 120F to 140F might be even more useful to speed the process up and/or improve final extraction. Of course, avoiding losing or damaging the THC would be of primary concern in limiting the temperatures used, and secondly the effects of denaturing bioactive compounds such as enzymes on the process would be a consideration as well.

Perhaps something like a stepped mash used in converting (mashing) Barley Malt in Beer Brewing would suggest a high speed process applicable to the Fresh and/or Dry Water Cure methods. It would probably be of greater value in the Dry Water Cure method, but who knows until such things are tried and tested for affective weight reduction, percentage THC content increase and more qualitative flavor/aroma considerations. (Where'd I put my copy of the Complete Joy of Home Brewing??? :p )

Ah questions, the appitizer of information junkies! :o

[salmayo]

ENZYME ----- OPTIMUM TEMP. ----- OPTIMUM pH --- FUNCTION
Phytase -------- 86-126 F ------------ 5.0-5.5 --- Lowers pH (Acidifies)
Debranching ---- 95-113 F ---------- 5.0-5.8 --- Solubilization of starches (Gelatinization/Hydration)
Beta Glucanase - 95-113 F ---------- 4.5-5.5 --- Reduces Gums to simple sugars (also called Gumase)
Peptidase ----- 113-131 F ----------- 4.6-5.3 --- Reduces Proteins to Free Amino Nitrogen
Protease ------ 113-131 F ----------- 4.6-5.3 --- Breaks up big proteins (peptones/albumins)
Beta Amylase -- 131-150 F ---------- 5.0-5.5 --- Converts starches to Maltose
Alpha Amylase - 154-162 F ---------- 5.3-5.7 --- Converts starches/sugars to simple sugars
None ------------ 168-172 F ----------------------- Denature all enzymes & reduces the viscosity of plasma, eases extraction

I would think a Step Mash Process like that used in mashing malts for making Beer could be used, with say 2 hour steps at temperatures of 113F, 145F, 156F and 170F, provided one of these steps did not cause the trichome gland heads to separate from the material. A slow heating from 95F to 172F over an 8 or more hour period could work as well. It's possible that if one of these temperature steps does cause the trichome heads to come off, that stepping the temperature up to the next step skipping the unwanted temperature range could solve the problem, resulting in a then workable method.

On the other hand, this could be completely wrong! :eek:

I'm sure I'll get arround to doing something this desparate eventually... :o

[salmayo]

I found one thread that I was impressed with:

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/marijuana-harvesting-drying-storage/105865-water-cure-wc.html

I also found a reference to the Fresh Water Cure method's Weight reduction, that sited the following:

FRESH WATER CURE REDUCTION NUMBERS
Retained Weight Percentage: 60%
Reduced Weight Percentage: 40%

Which is very nearly the same as the 57%/43% numbers I got for the final dry weight numbers for my PreDried Water Cured method. So it would appear that both methods have approximately the same potential for weight reduction.

I found one reference that THC degrades severely above 95F, which sounds unlikely to me, since Equatorial varieties are amongst the most potent and they live in 120F+ temperature.

I did find a reference that stated that the Trichomes melt at 170F, so for lack of a better reference, I guess I'll try and stay below 165F in my experiments.

And lastly I found an excellent experiment using a PPM pen to measure the extract values of the water in a 7 day Fresh Water Cure experiment, and they indicated that the first 3 days were the most critical and then the PPM values of the spent extract water fell sharply. So a 3 days soak period seems the most efficient in terms of extraction value per day. This agrees with my own experience checking the water for color/murkyness and it's also the point where a PreDried sample sinks from the top of the container to the bottom (indicating full absorption or water saturation?).

Using a PPM pen to measure the extraction values to see what you're getting for your efforts is a great idea, I wish I had thought of that! :rolleyes:

[pflover]

My thoughts on "biological processes involved with fluid exchange in the plant" is that the plant doesn't sweet out compounds, even when touching leaves weep water as up close to the lights or other heat source. So, it seems to me that the plant's transpiration process compensate for osmotic pressure to some extent to retain both vascular (sap) and inner cell compounds under normal conditions, not that being submerged is normal for the plant.

I am saying the plant will do this through it's vascular system.... not through the leaves as such... the plant is still alive and the osmotic processes that allow the plant to do it's thing normally would also cause the lower osmotic preasure of the pure water to draw out the compounds in the cells. The preasure on the inside of the cells should be significantly higher that that of the pure water. As you have stated in the past, a cut bud will actively draw water through it's vascular system. Submerged living buds that are going through a water cure and have the water changed every day do not start to rot and degrade like a life that is still on a growing plant that is part in and part out of the water.

[pflover]

Sal, are you ever going to do the wet water cure comparison so we can see how the two methods compare?

[salmayo]

I've already dried and, as of this weekend will have, PreDried Water Cured the last of the buds from my last harvest.

I've just put 3 Haze females (2 of the Pheno you've used, and one of the later one) into flower this week under 11L/13D. So I figure it will be a month and a half before I take a prepollenation sample before the next phase of my Low Haze breeding program, at least a sample large enough to do some comparisons on, say 1/2 ounce dried weight.

So I'm hoping in the mean time some one will beat me to doing a 1/2 and 1/2 comparison between the Fresh and PreDried methods.

I did find some quotes online siting between 25% and 40% dried weight reductions for the Fresh method, and the 40% sounds like a reasonable maximum to me and right on par for the PreDried method as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I should think that the chlorine in tap water would combat molding/rotting. And the example I sited was with standing dechlorinated water causing eventual rot of leaves hanging down into it during cloning/rooting.

I've been pondering the circulation of water in and out of the cut end of the stems, and wonder if it would be that different from an initial use of cut stems/branches in water with the upper plant exposed as in rooting, to pump out soluable compounds as I've done in the past, but that having the rest of the plant submerged protects the upper parts from wilting/witherring and dying "on the vine" as it were.

I'm still looking forward to doing a Fresh vs. PreDried method comparison. It's just gonna be an unbearable while for me personally. Hopefully someone will have a harvest before then and beat me to it, and share their results here.

I know my input on this thread is biased by my PreDried method only experience, but I started the thread with the honest desire to learn and share more, and considerring how long it took me to go from Brick/Mex and Dried Trim Water Curing to finally take the plunge with my own harvested buds, I'm comparatively anxious to try the Fresh Water Cure method as soon as I can (Thanks for that Everybody! ;) ).

(And PF, when in Rome) So PF, "are you ever going to do the wet water cure comparison so we can see how the two methods compare?" :p

[pflover]

you are the one that likes that method.... not i. :p

i worry about it and dislike what it does to the flavore. i trust you and am happy with your results. ;)

[milkcratejukebox]

help me understand....after reading this thread and reading that link you searched for and provided to us (tyvm) http://www.gardenscure.com/420/marijuana-harvesting-drying-storage/105865-water-cure-wc.html

SO....to quote "Water curing and air curing are doing exactly the same thing except you retain flavour and smell with air drying and with water curing you lose that flavour and smell but you have a smoothe smoke"
so if i dont mind losin a fruity taste, or unique aromas some strains offer us, to exchange MORE POTENT and smoother smokin weed....WTF... i think i answered my own question...so i guess the obvious would be to search for more potent weed and forego the unique aromas and flavors these hard workin breeders are trying to offer us...
am i wrong or what ...why bother with the "berry" or "chocolopes" or "mangos" etc.. etc.. then give me a strong THC level weed...i don't care what it smells like or what flavor it is....as long as it is strong..after i'm water cured it will be "smooth and potent" ?

or what? :confused:

[salmayo]

help me understand....after reading this thread and reading that link you searched for and provided to us (tyvm) http://www.gardenscure.com/420/marijuana-harvesting-drying-storage/105865-water-cure-wc.html

SO....to quote "Water curing and air curing are doing exactly the same thing except you retain flavour and smell with air drying and with water curing you lose that flavour and smell but you have a smoothe smoke"
so if i dont mind losin a fruity taste, or unique aromas some strains offer us, to exchange MORE POTENT and smoother smokin weed....WTF... i think i answered my own question...so i guess the obvious would be to search for more potent weed and forego the unique aromas and flavors these hard workin breeders are trying to offer us...
am i wrong or what ...why bother with the "berry" or "chocolopes" or "mangos" etc.. etc.. then give me a strong THC level weed...i don't care what it smells like or what flavor it is....as long as it is strong..after i'm water cured it will be "smooth and potent" ?

or what? :confused:It appears addressing me, so I'll respond, but I have to say it sounds like you're implying that you're quoting me, when I think you're reacting to something stated in that thread link that I referred to by saying "I found one thread that I was impressed with", and I was impressed with the relative amount of information in it I hadn't seen before, But I did not say I agreed with everything in it, nor that everything in it was accurate. (I use the terming "reacting" there because I'm sensing perhaps hostility, as if you or anyone else has been insulted by the concept of Water Curing. It's a curing method, not a declaration of war on what anyone my prefer as per their personal tastes or not. I'm interested in the 2 basic methods of Water Curing. I don't recall stating ANYTHING about anyone's tastes or preferences, and quite frankly would prefer to avoid getting sucked into any such endless debate of esthetics. As the saying goes, "There's no accounting for esthetics", i.e. "There's accounting for taste".)

If should have prefaced something with "It's just my opinion...", well then my bad.

By the way one of the major interestes I have I Water Curing is hopefully the ability to use bug sprays (insecticidal soap?) during flowering and then being able to remove any residue as best as possible, but that also doesn't mean that I'm not interested in the method in and of itself.

I don't agree with whomever's quote, "Water curing and air curing are doing exactly the same thing except you retain flavour and smell with air drying and with water curing you lose that flavour and smell but you have a smoothe smoke". I don't think that Water Curing and Air Curing are doing the same thing, and I believe the dry weight reduction alone attests' to this.

Then, after you apparently answered some question in your own mind as the to the esthetic value of fruity flavors and to whether or not your beloved personal tastes had been offended. (I'm yanking your chain here! The point here is you seem to be taking this really personal, and I don't know why, since I'm still trying to figure out who supposedly said fruity weed is a bad thing??? I personally love the fruity, and what I don't like isn't really anybodies business. If you need to go there, PLEASE START A THREAD ON IT, but I think it's a real pitfall to get into the whole "I'm Right! You're Wrong" over something as various as personal taste, and I might read such a thread, but I think it would be better for me not to post in it, since I don't think anyone needs to justify their likes and dislikes to anyone.)

Line by Line, I think you then vent a bit and it sounds like you're trying to pass off opinions as new found conlusions, and I have a couple of opinions myself (I can't believe that anyone didn't warn you about something as vastly dangerous as inviting my opinion... ...ever! :p ):
"so i guess the obvious would be to search for more potent weed and forego the unique aromas and flavors these hard workin breeders are trying to offer us..." I didn't know that striving for potent weed was such a lame and outdated notion. :rolleyes: And dare I venture a guess as to your liking of aromas and flavors. But I must thank you here, I had no idea that potency was mutually exclusive with having aromas and flavors... ...hold on a second... ...I just have to write this down... ...this is incredible... ...THIS CHANGES MY WHOLE UNIVERALY SCHEME OF THINGS!!!... ...(MASTER! Teach Me!)

(Oh... ...God!... ...This just couldn't get any better!... ...Oh! Wait, it does...)

"am i wrong or what "... Are you presumptuously facsious or what? Personally I don't know what to think at this point. If had to guess (I must. I MUST!), either you're so caught up in yourself that you've gone completely off the deep end, or that this might actually be an attempt at a rhetorical statement, but honestly it's just a shot in the dark either way. I mean piss on one hand or vinegar on the other, does it really matter?

"...why bother with the "berry" or "chocolopes" or "mangos" etc.. etc.. " Other than your general attitude here, this has no context and is meaningless. Obviously your context is obvious to you. This is what happens when you get caught up in something you feel strongly about and substitute flamboyance for statements of meaning. Even a rhetorical statement, posed as a question, has to have a statement in it. I.E. State more, emote less. It'd be a hell of a lot easier to understand what you're saying, not to mention easier to read, if you actually stated something, rather fixating on trying so hard to imply something important was being said instead. You emote like gangbuster, but what's the point if you don't state anything. You're good at being grandiose... ...unitelligable... ...but grandiose!

"then give me a strong THC level weed...i don't care what it smells like or what flavor it is....as long as it is strong.." I'm all for the former, but not the intermediocre, and not the latter either. You may not mind if yours tastes like crap, is harsh and burns, but I most certainly do. I think here you make the leap of logic that "smells" and "flavor" mean either good or bad, but again without detail it goes nowhere.

"..after i'm water cured it will be "smooth and potent" ?

or what? :confused:" Meaningless, you don't give what "it" is any definition, did you mean "will it" rather than "it will"? And it leaves, "or what?" without meaning or direction.

Venturing a wild guess, YOU SOUND UPSET. But, why???... ...You love tasty weed?... ...Good for you... ...What's your point?... ...You'd prefer your weed pleasantly aromatic and tasty!... ...That post was a hell of a long way to go to state that YOU'D PREFER YOUR WEED PLEASANTLY AROMATIC AND TASTY.

Well thanks for sharing that with me, by the way next time why don't you just PM me one of those little gems. I mean that's an awful long way to go just to make the ride emotional.

BUT, WHAT THE HEY, IT ALWAYS WORKS FOR ME!!!... :p

For what it's worth, Milky Ol Pal, if the flavor and aroma are in the non-water soluable resins that are retained in a Water Curing process, so much the better I'd say. I just think that getting rid of vegatable gum that cremates into tar and the like, is a good thing if some people need less irritation like that, and I think that getting rid of said vegatable gum is the main action Water Curing does.

If you prefer Full Flavor to low tar, Rock Those Bowls Milky!

P.S. Now that You've seen what a shameless excuse I have for fun in the way of yanking people's chain playing Devils Advocate, by all means Help Me Hurt Myself in Public again. Ask anybody, if anyone needs some humility it's me. :p

(Yeh, that one's long enough. Now time for a quick breath and back to making my original excessively long post!)

[salmayo]

Probably already own a PPM pen, so I don't have to try and build one! :p
you are the one that likes that method.... not i. :p

i worry about it and dislike what it does to the flavore. i trust you and am happy with your results. ;)I worry about it molding, but I think the flavor and aroma actually rebounds a bit if you then let it cure, with some residual or even added moisture if need be, just like you would with fresh dried material. But, I think the residual moisture level should probably be lower in order to offset what I would think is a greater potential for molding due to the lack of compounds that might usually combat molding. I think chlorine in tap water, if used, would combat mold, at least until it evaporates off of the material, and then keeping the moisture fairly low would probably be advisable for long term storage.

I've been checking my dry samples from WC batches at 3 to 4 day intervals, and their aroma returns a bit after being sealed for awhile and become more apparent if the buds are disturbed or rubbed, as is the case with the comparatively overdried buds I tend to store, but the WC buds do seem to have less aroma/taste, which indicates that at least some of the aroma/taste is not contained in the resin sealed in the trichome heads, or that perhaps it is actually extracted out of them during the WC process.

I think you were the one who, asked if anyone sprayed during flowering? And I think some suspicion of residual insecticidal soap/neem, or at least some paranoia of it, prompted me to finally try the PreDried WC method on buds, which I had only tried on Brick/Mex/Soda(?) and to mellow out trim.

I don't think it effecsts the flavor of the resin, but it does seem to remove everything else, and it seems to smell less when smoked as well. Besides, I like my buds crunchy dry and explosively flamible (no patience, this one).

I am anxious to try/compare the Fresh method thou, but it'll be an intolerably long 2 months or so. I hope someone out there (especially with a PPM meter) beats me to it and posts some tasty info on their results.

I fear it may be difficult to evaluate flavor differences using the Haze, due to it's low odor and delicate mild flavor. But, I might have some interesting Low Haze F1 hybrids to play with here by then.

I did a repeat 1 night 24 hours soak and 24 hour fan dry, and the dry(ish) first weight reading dropped from 2.8 grams to 2.7 grams and it may drop down closer to 2.5 grams by Monday (nearing a 50% weight reduction?!). I think this was mainly due to the additional soak time of 24 hours, not so much to the drying and rehydration effects. In fact, I would think that the additional physical treatment of the material with the extra rehydration and drying would pose more of a danger of losing more trichome gland heads than having just left it soak an additional day to begin with. But at least, I've tried something and now I have something to consider, even if it's that I should do something.

From what I've seen and read, the first 3 days provide the most extraction action per time period, but that the process can continue up to 7 days to keep removing compounds, and that then after 7 days the laws of deminishing returns makes continuing further, less time effective than it's basically worth vs. potential Trichome head loses and potential mold dangers (or maybe the material degrades to the point of turning to muck!). I'm gonna have to make that eventual Fresh vs. PreDried comparison a 7 day soak I guess.

It's not to anxious of me to have baught another 3" Tea Diffuser wire mesh ball and chain, for a test that I probably wont do for 2 months? Nah, it's not anxious... ...Spaztic! That's what it is!

Thanks again to everyone for their input on this unique and contraversial curing method.
I know I've learned a thing or 2, and will hopefully learn some more in the not too distant future. ;)

Thanks everyone! :cool:

[milkcratejukebox]

hold on Champ...
i didnt direct anything hostile toward you...its as always spririted cconversation
and the quote was from the article..which i thanked you for the link
i'll bet other people read this thread and the various feedbacks and articles and wondered the same thing...

so if anyone thought my response was hostile or idiotic..i apologoize to the whole community for that... please forgive my ignorance...

sorry for the stress... "salmy ol' pal"

[pflover]

MCJB, i wouldn't take sal too seriously. he likes to get a little over the top some times with his devils advicate stuff. usually he doesn't actually mean harm by it tho.

Sal that post a bit intense tho. ;)

[salmayo]

Yes, I'm over the top a lot. My monster post habit doesn't help either. :o

But, I did mention that I was pulling yer leg a bit here and there.

My point is that, I observed a great deal of turmoil in some of the threads I've read on the topic, in regards to esthetics. And as I stated in this last "playing Devils Advocate" post, this is just an examination of just one method of curing, not a Declaration of War on other methods or the esthetics of tasty vs. potency of whatever.

I was serious about a thread on aromas and flavors. I was also serious that I would be best to avoid it personally.

The only thing stressfull MCJB, was resisting the urge to get pulled into an esthetics stance myself. You have no idea how hard it was and is, not to state my personal positions on things like Skunk aroma and flavor.

An odd thought has occured to me though, if so much flavor is not in the resin then I guess it's loss is more noticable in this method than in say Bubble Hash, because we wouldn't automatically assume we're losing much flavor/aroma in Bubble Hash, since it comes from leaves, which we wouldn't consider as tasty as buds.

Although, I might consider the method of Water Curing intermediate between Air Curing and making Bubble Hash, I wouldn't say the results are. I would definitely say that Bubble Hash mixed with Air Cure Buds would be tastier in terms of flavor and aroma, but in terms of isolating trichomes it would seems about intermediate in terms of potency.

I would consider Water Curing a method that appeals to time considerations and more so to people with respiratory problems, or perhaps just want to remove that grassy taste from cooking with it.

I must say though MCJB, that you Hit Me' Nail On The Head about persuing potency rather than flavor/aroma with me personally, and I can see how this has attracted and influence my perceptions on Water Curing. I'm Crazy In Love with my Haze Ladies, who are at once low odor and mildly flavored and definitely potent, which for me makes up for their outragiously long flowering duration (I held out for 20 weeks on that last little bit I chopped).

So as I stated the Old Addage before, "There's No Explaining Esthetics". So I humbly submit that we should avoid such an endless and potentially divisive pursuite here.

Like I should talk about saving bandwidth and whatnot with my (looking up)... :o ...er... ...little problem. :rolleyes:

I did mean what I said about being surprised no one warned you about my argumentative nature... ...although, I find the characterization debatable. :eek:

[salmayo]

I've got one last batch of PreDried Water Cure going.

It's just some odds and ends I decided to try the method on.

Some is still semi Fresh and fairly pliable airy Sativa Dominant type bud, and there's even a tight dry nicely cured Indica like bud in there to just for the sake of camparision.

I'm gonna let this one go for a full 7 days, rather than my usual 3 or 4. I'm a bit apprehensive about letting it go for so long, but the 7 day figure is mentioned so much that I felt it would be negligent for me not to attempt it once. And, I figure the chlorine in the tap water should combat molding, so why not. Hope I don't find out "Why Not"!

The sample was so small, that I thought it excessive to try and weight it. (That's right, I said "I thought" something was "excessive"!) :rolleyes:

I'll post a qualitative review of the results next week. I'll be particularly interested to see what happens with the differences in this sample compared to my usual completely dry airy Haze samples.

[milkcratejukebox]

..whew....why don't you just lay down for awhile
we will wake you when someone else says something stupid

[milkcratejukebox]

relax just kiddin...lmao



love and happiness
"Crate"

[milkcratejukebox]

i would love to know the results..specially if its more potent....

tyvm

[salmayo]

I just did a final dry weight measurement for the last batch I did after it was dried for 1 week, and there was no additional weight loss due to additional drying after the first day of drying, as recorded last time. So...

After a 3 Day Water Cure and a week drying
Pre-Water Cure Dry weight: 4.9 grams
Post-Water Cure Dry weight: 2.8 grams
Post-Water Cure Reduction Weight: 2.1 grams (roughly)

Retained Weight Percentage: 57%
Reduced Weight Percentage: 43%

With the additional 1 Day ReWater Cure and a week drying
Pre-Water Cure Dry weight: 4.9 grams
Post-Water Cure Dry weight: 2.7 grams
Post-Water Cure Reduction Weight: 2.1 grams (roughly)

Retained Weight Percentage: 55%
Reduced Weight Percentage: 45%

So a rough conclusion would be, the Reduction in weight per day over the first three days averages about a 14.3% reduction per day, and then the Reduction in weight per day falls to about a 2% reduction per day.

I'd say repeated drying and rehydrating isn't worth the additional effort compared to just continuing the soaking process another day, or for however many additional days.

I do think that the first three days of the soaking process show the most reduction activity per day, and that at least with the PreDried version of Water Curing, a 3 day soaking time should give the best results on a day by day basis.

[salmayo]

This is the first 7 day test I've done with the PreDried Water Cure Method, and I was a bit apprehensive wonderring if their would be any mold issues, like moldy off peppery smells or aromas.

I was pleasantly surprise that there were no signs of mold after 24 hours drying over slow moving air at 68F to 70F and roughly 50% air humidity. Even a rather dense Indica type bud dried well when split open for examination after drying.

An additonal note, one of the buds was a rather airy Sativa type that was about half dry and it turned out to be to most aromatic after the drying of the three kinds tested. A further indication that I really must do a Fresh vs. PreDried Water Cure comparison when ample materials become available!

[salmayo]

An early harvest before seeding of one of my Neville's Haze plants resulted in a Fresh Weight of 45.5 grams and this material was used to compare Fresh Water Curing to Dry Water Curing.

16 grams of Fresh material was Water Cured for 1 week, while the remaining 29.5 grams was dried with slow moving fan air for 1 week. Then the Fresh Water Cured material was dried in the same manner for a week. The Dried Fresh material went from 29.5 grams Fresh to 7.2 grams Dry Weight and was Dry Water Cured for 1 week and then dried likewise for 1 week.

Fresh Weight Comparison
Fresh Air Dried: went from 29.5 grams to 7.2 grams.
Giving a Dried Weight of 24.4% of Original Fresh Weight, a Dried Reduction of 75.6%.

Fresh Water Cured: went from 16 grams fresh to 2.7 grams dry.
Giving a Dried Weight of 16.9% of Original Fresh Weight, a Dried Reduction of 83.1%.

Dried Water Cured: went from 29.5 grams fresh to 4.4 grams dry.
Giving a Dried Weight of 14.9% of Original Fresh Weight, a Dried Reduction of 85.1%.


Dry Weight Comparison
Fresh Water Cured: went from an estimated Dry 3.9 grams to 2.7 grams dry.
Giving a Dried Weight of 69.2% of Original Dry Weight, a Dried Reduction of 30.8%.
Suggesting a 44.4% increase in relative THC content by weight.

Dried Water Cured: went from 7.2 grams dry to 4.4 grams dry.
Giving a Dried Weight of 61.1% of Original Dry Weight, a Dried Reduction of 38.9%.
Suggesting a 63.6% increase in relative THC content by weight.


These results suggest that Fresh Water Curing gives approximately a 30% reduction in Dry Weight, and that Dry Water Curing gives approximately a 40% reduction in Dry Weight. This also suggests that Fresh Water Curing gives approximately a 45% increase in potency by weight, and that Dry Water Curing gives approximately a 65% increase in potency by weight.

The Fresh Water Cured material is darker than standard dried/cured material with white hair turning brown, and Olive grey stems, while the Dry Water Cured material is darker and browner haired with darker green leaves and grey stems. The leaves of the Fresh Water Cured material looking paler green than those of the darker Dry water cured material. Both have almost no odor and a paperry slightly grassy smell at first, which is reduced with more time (Curing?). It should be noted that the strain used in Neville's Haze and is low odor and mildly flavored to begin with, which should actually help compare secondary grassy/papery/pepperry flavors noted by many in regards to Water Cured examples. If the Trichomes are disturbed, the more familiar resiny odors are released, but these to seem a bit weaker and milder than regularly dried/cured examples of this plant, and the difference seems more noticable in more pungent varieties.

An initial attempt to do a smoke test comparison starting with the Dry Water Cured material resulting in underestimation of the increased potency and subsequente 10 hour delay in proceeding to the conclusion that the tests should done with .2 gram, .3 gram and .4 gram comparisons, in the interest of maintaining comparative objectivity (and time, but it's still gonna be a long night!). Being that this strain normally cured approaches 18% THC by weight easily, the Dry Water Cured material could then be approaching 30% THC by weight easily!

I am enlisting the help of others to compare Aroma/Flavor/Potency and will post these results shortly.

On a personal note, I personally would prefer a 4 day Water Curing since the most seems to happen in the first 3 days and it allows for processing twice as much material per week. I'm also looking forward to the final results of the smoke comparisons, since using BOTH methods would allow for Water Curing fresh material straight from harvest and then Water Curing dried material thereafter, and I assume that Water Curing partially dried material would give results more like the Dry Water Cure method, but still with the nonmolding benefits of this Water Curing method.

Also, I think that controlled humidity curing of Water Cured material should yeild results similarly to this kind of curing with standard material, but I'm wonderring if after Water Curing, the material may not be as mold resistent due to the absents of various phytochemicals from the material. I do think that the best method would be drying the material well ASAP, and then curing with small amounts of controlled humidity. Hopefully after these smoke tests, I'll jar cure some for a while and see. :rolleyes:

[salmayo]

I would have to say without a doubt that a week is way TOO long for water curing Fresh or Dried buds, even with multiple water changes per day.

The Fresh cured material definitely has a "Peppery" taste that is reminicent of Black Pepper, and I find this disturbing because I always associate this smell/taste in buds as a sign of mold, visible or not. This may just be a more tanic or more terpintine flavor of the woodier remains of the Water Curing/Extraction process. As a blind reaction to buds with this flavor, I would have to guess that the stuff had a moldy taste to it.

The Dried cured material has a Grassy, Yellow Alfalfa Hey taste that was best compared to the lack of flavor and pulpy notes that an exhausted Tea Bag has when it's used a second time. One comment went so far as to say that it tasted like an old wet book.

In both cases I'd haven to definitely say that 7 days is not an improvement over 4 days, notably with an increased mold risk, and anything over 3 days is too much. At the end of 3 days you've hit the far end of the Water Curing Spectrum, which is Hemp fiber that has been soaking in water for 3 days plus what the non-water soluable compounds such as THC and the remaining resin taste like. With a low odor, mildly or delicately flavorred Strain such as The Haze used here, these Peppery or Hey Like aromas and flavors are strongly noticable.

I was hoping that 7 days using fresh material would not end up at this extreme, but I still believe from the best of my experiences and from the best of what I've read, that 3 days is the max for Fresh Water Cured or Dried Water Cured methods. It would appear that Fresh Curing takes longer to progress, so maybe a 3 to 4 day cure would result in superior material.

2 additional samples of this same Harvest have been Dry Water Cured at 4 days and at 2 days, and these will be compared with the 7 day results. I believe an extrapolation of these results will indicate a trend towards shorter submersion times for preferable flavor. And yes, for some I'm sure that will mean that no submersion is good submersion, but exploring the method will continue.

My ponderings on the issue of weight reduction or retention vs. traditional cured flavor, leads me back to the concept of mashing used in Brewing Science and relavent lessons learned in Hop processing temperatures and times. I think if fresh or dried material was first submerged in a 90F degree solution of 25% sugar water (equalized osmotic pressure) and held a max of 2 hour steps to 120ish and then up to a final 130F (or a slow heating up to 6 to 8 hours max) with a triple 130F water rinse, that this would accellerate the curing process without loss of final dry weight and drying to 50% down to 33% of fresh weight could be then rapidly done at up to 130F or more, resulting rapidly in a more palatable Jar Cure ready material than the cooler Water Curing methods provide. The process might be further hastened using solution temperatures of 140F to 170F degrees, but I believe that at 140F THC sublimates (diffuses) out into the water and potency would be lost. Hopefully I'll do a write up of some similar experiments to wrap up this thread by the end of the month.

[salmayo]

These tests were using a delicately flavored Haze, whose resin was only mildly aromatic despite it's formidable potency. I believe this plant makes an ideal vehicle for studying the other flavors and aromas present in the samples.

Unfortunately I only had the one 7 day batch of Fresh Water Cured material for this test and it's only really relevant to compare it to the 7 day Dry Water Cured material, as follows for 7 day Water Curing: The Fresh Water Cured tasted grassy like Yellow Alfalfa Hey with a terpine Black Pepper Corn note, while the Dry Water Cured tasted comparatively swampy. Both methods resulted in dryer burning characteristics than the original uncured dried material, but slow burning was poor and the samples tend to burn out rather than stay lit.

Several Dry Water Cured batches were compared using 7, 4 and 2 day submersion times, with 2 day carbon filiterred fan outlet drying times as follows:
7 days, Swampy, Boggy, Tepid Water notes.
4 days, Burnt Popcorn, Burnt Toast and Burnt vegetable oil notes.
2 days, Warm White Bread to Lightly Toasted Wonder Bread. Burning was better than the 7 or 4 day samples. (Jamacan Lambs Bread comments abbounded.)

Due to popular demand, experiments were perform to access the ability to put some character back into the material, and the least popular (7 day Dry Water Cured) samples were used to test the followind dry sample 1 hour immersions with 1 day drying as above (so sayeth 3 people wasted in a room full of smoke):
4 Celestial Seasonings Wild Berry Zinger Tea Bags, cold extracted for 15 minutes in a cup of water - This only resulted in a mild Tea/Berry aroma, and a milder flavor, but no notable flavor. Burning was slightly less dry, but it seems harder to light and stay lit (generally poorer burning). Slight "Bag Appeal" improvement if any.
Welches Grape Juice - Nice mild berry type aroma, mild but with not notable flavor. Burning quality is much improved and it both burns and smokes well both in the bowl and rolled. "Bag Appeal" is much improved with ever popular purple highlights, but looks slightly patchy under critcal magnified inspection and a longer soak is suggested for better more even wetting. - (Declared Best of Show).
Welches Grape Juice Concentrate - Stronger berry aroma and good berry flavored smoke, but poor lighting and burning quality, difficult to stay lit. Bag appeal is odd and almost rubbery, leaving honey like deposits on inside of bag (looks doctored). Nice aroma, Tasty, but gummy looking and hard to burn.

All have agreed that the "Juice" samples were the best in appearance and character, but with a neutral taste and little added aroma if any. In short it's a nice mild good burning smoke, with no unpleasant flavor. More strongly flavored or skunky varieties should retain more of their original resin character with a treatment like this. No moldyness was observed in any of the "Flavored", but fruit juice seems an ideal mold invitation.

(As to the morality of "adding" weight or juicing, Although I think the "concentrate" sample was an objectional overboard extreme, I view the "Juice" material as more of a replacement transfusion, replacing gummy sap with fruity syrup, and honey has been suggested as a flower sap for flower necter substition.)

(I make no attempt at arguing the morality or esthetics of these methods. I pursue and present this information for informations sake, subjective as it may be.)

I'll be harvesting some seed stock and expanding this with some 2 and 4 day Fresh Water Curing samples and some more Grape Juicing with comparative weight (gain?) measurements.

Until it can be confirmed that my original assumption of a 3 day maximum Fresh Water
Cure duration is supported by the next 2 and 4 day samples, I'll simply leave it till then, and simply repeat that 3 days seems the safe limil for Dry Water Curing and 2 days gives a nice result with a comfortable safety margin that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to others interested in these techniques. I expect the same or better results from 2 day Fresh Water Cured samples next week, as have been noted here for the Dry Water Curing technique samples.

("Juicing". Great, it sounds like steroid abuse!) :rolleyes:

[sevens]

i do not know why .it is the first time ever that i have read or ear about that water cure .i have to admit after reading this tread who is very nice and instructive btw ...i will give it a try ..i will go to bed a bit smarter tonight ...lol....7 ....thank you all very very nice ..:D

[salmayo]

At this point the safest guidelines I can offer for anyone wanting to try this technique is only try it for 2 days at most to start and change the water often to avoid clouding (microbial blooms/spoilage).

My experiments repeatedly confirmed 3 Days is the limit for starting with Dry materials, and until I confirm the Maximum day limit for Fresh materials, I would also suggest not going more than 3 days using fresh material either. The Fresh material may go as long as 6 days with good results for all I know. My readding suggests that off flavors start showing up at 4 days, as with Dry materials. Hopefully, I can confirm this over the next week.

The main idea behind the method is that it removes green/grassy flavors from the material, but it also removes whatever other flavors are contained in the plants sap or water solutable vegetable gums, including removing agreable flavors enjoyed by many.

I'm hoping to do a 2 and a 4 day Fresh test, but their may not be much material available for this, since I'm searching the buds for seeds first, and only seedless or deseeded buds will be used for the tests. The buds will be at their peak this time, but Cloepatra's (mild Haze Sativa's) taste should still be mild (low skunk) enough to allow for good evaluatin of the other background flavors of the plant matter (sap/gum).

[sevens]

i will assist you to do a test i will do it for 5 days .
you have already done 3 days ..and now you want to try 2 and 4 days .that is with fresh cut plants ..i will do a 5 days test and report here ..just got a simple question
let say i take a small plant ..say ...14 inch finish .after just leaving just the top cola and a piece of the trunk to hang it ..how big the water container have to be ..can i use a 2 litre soda bottle ?..and change the water 3 or 4 time a day ...i can do that ..got a lot of time in my day ..is this acceptable as a water cure method ...please let me know ...7

[lequebecfume]

Having been ill alot I have not been able to add to this thread.

The water cure method was developed to fast cure and or to remove mold bad taste and to correct bad weed.

That said, you either like it or you don't.

It was supposed to be an informative thread. All the sniping back and forth just clouds the issue.

For anybody new to this thread. Try the 3 day method. There is no difference between it and the 7 day. Always use clean water. Chlorinated was can be off gassed over night and used. NEVER use fresh tap water it will impart unwanted taste to the bud.

All that said and done. If you don't like water curing or this thread , why add to it. It works great for alot of us, why not leave it at that.


Peace and good water curing. :D

LEQ

[salmayo]

i will assist you to do a test i will do it for 5 days .
you have already done 3 days ..and now you want to try 2 and 4 days .that is with fresh cut plants ..i will do a 5 days test and report here ..just got a simple question
let say i take a small plant ..say ...14 inch finish .after just leaving just the top cola and a piece of the trunk to hang it ..how big the water container have to be ..can i use a 2 litre soda bottle ?..and change the water 3 or 4 time a day ...i can do that ..got a lot of time in my day ..is this acceptable as a water cure method ...please let me know ...7Any information you can help with is appreaciated 7's. It would be great to have some 5 day information, giving us curing info on 2, 4, 5 and 7 day Fresh WC results.

The only thing I really worry about is clouding due to microbe blooms, which is one of the two reasons the water gets changes so often, the other reason is fresh water can absorb more compounds than used water that's already full of water soluable compounds (greater osmotic/ionic pressure differenc).

I use a rather large 1.5 gallon stainless steel pot and am Water Curing 20 grams Fresh fairly destemmed material, and the water gets changed at least 4 times a day. I use degassed (dechlorinated) room temp water for Water Curing Fresh material, but I can store Dry Water Curing batches in the fridge to "Cold Extract" for awhile, to avoid spoilage/molding. I don't put the Fresh Water Cure batches in the fridge, because I think the temperature drop slows the plants metabolism and slows the ionic exchange out into the water.

A 2 liter soda bottle should work (cutting the top off). The trick to tuning the volume of water to the volume of weed, which determines the water changing schedule, is to watch out for clouding, which means a microbial bloom in the water. The clouding is caused by high levels of nutes leached out into the water, AND if it happens repeatedly it means that the microbes carried on the plant matter are multiplying rapidly and the that either the water should be changed more often or the material dried.

The smaller the container you use the more often you need to change to water to avoid clouding (spoiling).

I let my first "2 day" batch go for 2.5 days due to a hectic Friday Night, which is one of the reasons I favor the 2 day method, it gives you a comfortable margin of error before going past what I think of as the 3 day limit. After 3 days, the extraction slows down to about a 3rd of it's original rate (from about 12% a day to 4% a day final weight reduction) and I think that water quality becomes more critical, since water born material is more likely to flux in as well as out, affecting taste and allowing microbes to get "into" the material. During the first 3 days the outfluxing of ions from the plant matter out into the water, ionically (osmotically) pushes water born particals away from the plant matter keeping it safer from influxing of microbes and taste altering compounds in the water. (It's great to have a Force Field until the batteries go dead.)

So as long as you can avoid a microbe bloom clouding the water, and at least do a final flush and rinse with good quality water, then you should get good results relative to the length of curing and post curing.

What's Post Curing? With WC the material is then rapidly dried to avoid molding, but once the moisture content is low enough to allow decent burning WITHOUT POPPING (boiling water inside the stems explodes as the steam expands 1700 times!), it can then be jar cured as with other drying/curing methods. I just tried some 4 day Dry WC material jar cured for 2 months, and it went from from somewhere like an old skunky wet book to the smoother more mellow smoke, odorless in the jar but with just a hint of skunk that curing often provides, but the burning character is still a bit papery.

WC reminds me of Wine Making, the idea is to extract/ferment a controlled culture, without spoiling it and ending up with vinegar instead.

[salmayo]

Having been ill alot I have not been able to add to this thread.

The water cure method was developed to fast cure and or to remove mold bad taste and to correct bad weed.

That said, you either like it or you don't.

It was supposed to be an informative thread. All the sniping back and forth just clouds the issue.

For anybody new to this thread. Try the 3 day method. There is no difference between it and the 7 day. Always use clean water. Chlorinated was can be off gassed over night and used. NEVER use fresh tap water it will impart unwanted taste to the bud.

All that said and done. If you don't like water curing or this thread , why add to it. It works great for alot of us, why not leave it at that.


Peace and good water curing. :D

LEQIt definitely seems to be a Love or Hate thing LeQuebecFume.

I myself have major reservations about motives to "Juice" up the final weight, but in the interest of more thoroughly investigating the method and it's parameteres I looked into it and was pleasantly surprised at the improvement in (or restoration of) even burning character it contributed to the final product. I think this is a good example of the value of such a thread, just because some method may not agree with someone's likes and dislikes, doesn't mean they can't learn something new and useful from exploring the topic.

If only it were about mere dissagreement, but it's never about dissagreement, it's about conduct. I will always agree to disagree, but I become the Devil's Advocate if I'm dissagreeing with someone's conduct.

So let this thread be a magnet for dissagreement, if it must, but let's just not let it be a magnettic temptation for misconduct (mine included, given that I find being Devil's Advocate so inviting).

[sevens]

i did found a 1 gallon glass jars ..i wll use it ...and take a pic or 2 just before the water change just to see if it get cloudy or not ...

[salmayo]

I look forward to your results.

I also found out a few things this week.

Firstly a 2.5 day Fresh Water Cure of 10 grams of RIPE Haze reduced down to 2.2 grams after a 2 day drying, and a 4.25 day Fresh Water Cure of 10 grams of RIPE Haze reduced down to 1.9 grams after a 2 day drying. Their was a notable difference in the appearance of these two samples before drying, the 4 day material had dark bruising on it's leaves (like boiled spinach) that gave it a damaged look, while the 2 day material still looked like fresh cut only paler and yellower. It is a hard call to make on these samples as to the benefit of the Water Curing, since these buds were ripe and had little if any green taste to remove, but with the delecate resin profile of this one mild Haze Sativa and a comparison to a Skunkier sister, I would have to say that the taste of the 4 day was slightly swampier than the 2 day and both were fairly close to Fresh Dried for this sampling, only less so, due to it's mild taste and aroma. The main test train (Cleopatra) used here is low odor, so the deodorizing value of Water Curing is of less value in this particular example, and skunkier resin notes in her smelly sister are noticable, but less so while stored until it is disturbed/rubbed or smoked.

After curing some samples a bit, it is noted that the wet old wood/pulp taste of the Dry Water Cured samples does not cure out much. Here better attention to water quality is probably of more use than further curing later.

I haven't found any information on pH and Water Curing, but I'm still interested in seeing if degrading chlorophyl and other compounds is worth investigating, using Flue Curing temperatures (90F, 100F, 115F).

The Grape Juiced sample cured out Raisenny rather than Wine like. Personnally I think smoking the additional dried Grapes/Raisens makes for more smoke and irritation, but I can't deny the more stable burning.

I will do a final Juicing test using 1 part Honey to 3 parts water, soaked for 2 hours. Hopefully this will have the benefits of producing a more stable burning material, while adding little if any off flavors or gummy looking deposits to the material/smoke. The sample should be come more pliable, but what I'm really interested in seeing is the color changes in the resultant dried samples, including how they cure. Well, we'll see what happens next time.

[sevens]

see sal my goal could be different than your......
for me the selfish guy i am ..i want to smoke as less as possible and have all the relieve the mmj can give me ...
so for me if i can reduce the weight and bulk of mmj and have it less stinkier and more potent ..then i will be happy .belive it or not since i did quit smoking cigarette .i am a bit concern because i do couch a bit too much ,,i nean cought well u know what i mean ..lol
i do look at medieatable right now and that look intrresting to me right now ...
so you do have to understand that for me if i can reduce the bulk and have a bigger thc ratio with water curing ..then this is what i need after the water cure i do need the best way to use it ..i got so many option that i never knew did exist .because of this site ..ty
ty is the best place to find any info .......this site is full of wonderfull ideas and suggestion
i have personally learn that if you place a response to any tread /you respond ....you need to back it up ..sometime you read something or are doing the same thing for years and believe it is the only way to do it /......
om that one i was wrong one time and a member did correct me ...it was an experience i would not forgot for a long time
i will not give you any name but she love pink floyd ..lol
she was right and i am happy ....now i got a new problem .....
smoke les and medicate more effectively ..water cure is step #1 now i do need a step n #2 to convert my water cure weed to a way to eat it or ..?????

sorry for the babbling ...,,7..

[salmayo]

I do my best not to have a goal other than information consolidation.

What I initially considered my goal sounds very much like what you state about reducing the smoking irritation from non-THC compounds and making it easier to consume.

And, believe it or not, I am trying to entertain as many outside insights as I can, and the one major thing people seem to get fixated on it the weight reduction, which many seem to feel is a loss, but I consider it more of a releaf than a loss.

I am investigating what sounds most interesting to me in concept, and especially if I can't find any info on it elsewhere. For interest I'm investigating post cure methods of modifying the burning habits and flavor of the then Water Cured material, to me the weight gain/loss issue is secondary to ending up with a nice usable (palatable) batch of meds. Other than Burning Habit of the finished material, taste is enough of a concern for enough people for me to look into it at least.

I've about finished up the topic in my mind, but there are still a few things I found which I'll state in the following posts. (Flavor info coming).

As for eating, MJ is coverred with spike like hairs that should be melted with heat before eating, and this also helps to completely dry and activate the THC in the material, but I'll leave Cooking/Eating prep methods to another thread (I actuallly think this thread is tangentially devient (my own flavor) enough as is.

[salmayo]

I post soaked Water Cured material in some Honey and Lemon mixtures and tested the results.

A 2 hour soak in 1/4th Strength Honey (in 3 parts water) gave a similar result to using Juice concentrate in that it left too much of the Honey residue on the outside of the sample, suggesting a thinner solution might have been absorbed better and a longer soak might be needed as well. The taste of burn sugar or "Bitter Carmel" was noticable (the other flavor people know as Caramel is Milk Carmel, contains dairy and is sweet rather than bitter. In this thread I refer to Carmel not Caramel), and it did mask the other background flavors, but the taste was a bit to strong for my liking and I tend to persue mild neutral flavors that make using larger quantities less of an irritant burden to my delicate nature. There was a weight gain in this test, the original dried Water Cured sample was 0.8 grams, which increased to 1.9 grams after the soak and a 2 day drying. (Yes the sample weight More than doubled, but I consider this excessive). The burning habit of this sample was hard to light and keep lit.

A 2 hour soak in 1/10th Strength Honey (in 9 parts water) with Lemon Juice to adjust pH to 4.0 to 4.5, gave a milder result with less but notable burn sugar/carmel (bitter) taste. This sample lit well, burned well and stayed lit easier than the 1/4 sample above. I tested my Brita Filter Water and found that it had a pH of 8.0 and decided a post soak might be easier for the average user than pH adjusting water for the entire process. This sample also had a lesser dried weight gain taking it from .8 grams to 1.1 grams.

I becided to forgo the Honey and just do a 4.0 to 4.5 pH post Water Cure material soak in Brita Water adjusted with ReaLemon Juice from the supermarket. The sample did not demonstrate a notable weight gain and stayed at .8 grams. This appears to neutralize alkaline notes leaf from the 8.0 pH Brita (tap) Water used during the actual Water Curing process. I could do a 7.0 pH Water Extract to try and determine the relative pH of the sample, but since taste is the primary factor of interest, I'll just assume that it's closer to 7.0 or less compared to the original sample Water Cured in relatively alkaline 8.0 pH Brita Filter Water, since the taste is more neutral than acidic.

Acidic water (pH below 7.0) and water containting carbs are great invitations to mold. Other than a short soak in acidic or sugary solutions, longer uses of these mixtures represents a mold risk. So other than short "Correcting" or "Flavoring" soaks, Water Quality during the Water Curing Process seems to be the critical factor in final flavor other than soak time.

Personally, pH'ing and doing a post dry pH soak and dry is more appealling to me at the moment than pH'ing 20 Water renews during the Water Cure, but that's probably because (at the/my moment) the curing part is over for many of my samples and neutralizing/mellowing the flavor with a little Lemon Water sweetening sounds appealing to me under these conditions, but here again my subjective desires to reduce irritants may be quite different than anothers.

[salmayo]

I finally found my ol' Marijuana Growers Guide by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal, and in it the original reference to Water Curing that I based my original experiments on.

I had forgotten two things stated in this text:
1. Water Curing is done on dried material. The test mentions this as a difference between Water Curing and other Curing/dry methods. (Not that Water Curing doesn't work surprisingly well with Fresh Material).
2. Luke Warm but not hot Water is used.

I've been using room temperature water in my experiments, but ponderring warmer temperatures as a method of speeding or enhancing the results. From what I've read about various curing methods the temps used should be at or above 90F, but below 125F, due to melding/sublimating/loss.

Also to avoid resin loss, solutions containing alcohol or emulsifiers like (soy) Lecithin should be avoided.

[salmayo]

My original interests in the Water Curing Method, were to reduce lung irritation from compounds like those contained in water soluable plant sap, and to reduce the Drying/Curing time of smaller samples to provide meds for users whose harvest is still mostly slow drying.

I learned surprising things like a 7 day Water Cure doesn't just turn to mold.

I learned that Water Quality is more critical the longer the Curing time is, including pH. At this point I think I actualling can taste metallic flavors from the water pipes! But then again my Haze lab rat is a mild little Lady to say the least, and she makes a great tattle tale when dealling with Flavors and Aromas braught out in these Curing Experiments.

Other than suggesting that people try Water Curing for less than 3 days the first time out, I think this ones about rapped up for now. (At least unit some time in the future when I or someone else falls prey to the urge to play with water temperatures.)

Feel free to ask any questions. I'll try and check periodically, if only for questions.

[©åNn@bïs_Üsé®]

Wow, this very interresting read here for sure. I never heard of water curing before until now. I always hang dry for weeks for curing.

[brainpain]

has anyone tried to filter out the water used. there has to be some heads that got broke off in the process?
:confused: or idea!

[brainpain]

Wow, this very interresting read here for sure. I never heard of water curing before until now. I always hang dry for weeks for curing.
you cure at all?

[salmayo]

has anyone tried to filter out the water used. there has to be some heads that got broke off in the process?
:confused: or idea!

I was surprised at how few trichome heads detached and went to the bottom of the container.

Note that when making Bubble Hash, the material is frozen first to detach the gland heads, so as long as your material hasn't been frozen, it seems the heads stay fairly well attached to the material.


you cure at all?

Water Curing magnifies off flavors in the water used, so use good tasting water, especially at the end before drying those tastes in, which concentrates them.

Once the moisture level is the material is low enough (~15%), then the material can be Jar Cured in the regular fashion.

[big pappa]

i must be really old or something. i've never heard of water cure. i've got to get out more eh? :) bp

[brainpain]

Wow, this very interresting read here for sure. I never heard of water curing before until now. I always hang dry for weeks for curing.
after hangin for days not weeks just till stems snap, maybe one week but not much more. glass jars for curin, cannabis is watched closely and opened for the first while a day or two at least, on and off with the lid as to vent excess moisture. then store for as long as needed closed.
peace, this makes a huge difference!
bp

[big pappa]

I'd like to thank one and all for your contributions on this topic! :D

I think it's safe to say, thanks to your information, that theirs more info posted here on the topic of Water Curing than I've found on the rest of the internet.

The TY communitty does it again! :D

No wonder I'm hooked on this place.


amen to that, THIS IS ONE AWESOME SITE. thanks for being here. bp

[Swampy]

has anyone tried watercuring bubble? I'm trying now on the 100 mesh batch but I'm not sure how good it was to start with :confused:

[Swampy]

it's definatrely the last step in hash making, I soak the hash in water(filtered in a Berkey) overnight in the fridge, then pour it thru the 35 bag and crumble the bubble to powder in the water then squeeze it out into a 5 gallon bucket. fill the bag with water and crumble hash again and squeeze all the water out. repeat until you have 5 gallons of green water. The first batch I tried it on was unsmokeable before washing because of safers insecticidle soap so I ran 15 gallons of water thru it over 3 days and was left with a nice blonde looking and tasting hash.
Next project is de-seed the seed crop and bubble that(Safer's) :D

[salmayo]

Water Curing as far as I know applies towards removing compounds from the vegetable matter of the plant, while leaving the Trichome head intact on the material.

Washing trichomes from bubble hash to remove dirt, mold and things like soap spray, would more of a rincing/washing step.

Soap Spray removal does work using Water Curing, and you can taste the difference after even a short submerging.

Either way water is a powerful tool for removing undesirable compounds while leaving the THC unharmed.

Water Curing what vegetable matter remains after making bubble shouldn't yeild much if anything, since making bubble is so good at removing the trich's from the other material.

But, cleaning the trich's with water is a great way to get rid of water soluable OFF flavors.

Always try to use the best water quality for you final soaking/rinsing, since as the water evaporates and condenses, it will intensify any flavors in it (metals, sulphur ect.).

[lequebecfume]

I love and use water cure to this day.



--LEQ who, wrote the Water Cure FAQ

[salmayo]

I love and use water cure to this day.



--LEQ who, wrote the Water Cure FAQ

I searched the FAQ on TY and can't find any Water Cure info?

Maybe I'm just not recognizing the title or something.

[lequebecfume]

the Water Cure Faq i spoke of is not on TY its is in Cannabis Culture.

sorry for any confusion


--LEQ :D

[Swampy]

It definately washed the soap off and the water was green and looked like it had oil on it but it didn't seem to lose much mass(3 garbage bags of leaf and maybe 1/2 lb moldy buds the frost hit produced a baseball size chunk). after April(when it's legal in Michigan) I will post pics next time. I have seeded buds(Free Leonard and a cross with crystal matrix and FL) with the safers on it too I was just gonna make bubble from but I'm gonna try soaking the buds first now