Can leo see the Power Spike?!!!

[ozzman]

Ok,folks, the other day i recalled something that i had learned. I thought it was something i read in the 80's about balancing the breaker-box to save money. And after a few of the experts here at TY put me straight on the subject, i now know it was most-likely something I had heard from a fellow grower. We were all beginners back then. lots of urbun myth's.

So I've got another question for the experts about another thing I think I learned but really need to comfirm the info. With computers, you can buy a power back-up to keep your system running in case of power outage ( I think it's called a UPS.) A little voice in my head says someone told me that it prevents the power spike on the grind so the electric company and/or leo can't see the lights going on and off. With the grind being monitored, they can see the spikes from the lights
If this one is wrong, please help imform me on how to cover up the spikes.

Thanks Folks!!! :) :) :)

[zigzag1a]

it's kinda what the capacitor on the ballast is doing. supplying extra power to get the lamp to light. not gonna cover any spike in power tho.

[Grant]

Your clothes dry will cause a similar spike. Furnace motor, fridge, freezer, block heater etc....

[ozzman]

So basicly, "There is NO way to cover the tale-tail spikes huh.... :(
Damm...That would have been my ace in the hole when trying to convince my old-lady to let me grow at home. As lone as the feds can come after me, she isn't changing her mind.

Oh well...any ideas? Please let me know...running out of ideas myself. :confused:

[Grant]

Go floro !
No spike...
No heat...
No problem....

[In The Wind]

^^ and there ya go! I'll second that. Using flouros solves a whole host of issues and will produce outstanding results..

Edited to add,

Unless your running a couple of 1000 watters, I would not be concerned that the power people would even see it switching...

[zigzag1a]

Unless your running a couple of 1000 watters, I would not be concerned that the power people would even see it switching...[/QUOTE]


exactly! one light dos'nt show any more drain than an air conditioner or dryer.

[1JoeSky_IVXX]

I do know of a fellow grower that went around and put old or junk air conditioners in 4 or 5 windows in his grow place, his idea was the meter readers would see these and they would see these and it would cover the electrical spikes.

Some folks will do odd stuff.LOL

[hollowpoint]

actually the only way for someone to see an increase in use at a specific time is to stand right at the meter. all the do is gather the reading, which is a total from the last reading. now from billing period to billing period if you suddenly went online with 3000 watts, it would show in the total when compared to last billing period.

[1JoeSky_IVXX]

In parts of NYS the meters have transmiters so the power Co. don't have ta get outa their vehicle.

[Grant]

With Blue Tooth technologie and the ability to transmit data through hyrdo transmission lines. Soon the hydro company will know your hat size.

Spooky huh?

[gelu65]

I used to work for a heating and A/C contractor years ago and he had 2 poles set up with wires with clamps that he could hook up at nite to run free power. We used run the same type setup when we did work on a job that had the meter removed when the tenants moved. They are talking about radio controlled units around here now so they dont have to read the meter. That might be good if they can charge less for off peak use with the setup.

[kidzag]

never, ever, ever steal power.....that's a sure way to get busted.....you might as well put up a neon sign saying "I'm growin"

[Stinky]

Stinky says, " If In Doubt DON'T"

[lesliechet]

hey stinky , you made a post ,..alright.No need to be shy now that you got your feet wet ,lol. when I get a electric bill it states on it the total amount of wattage I use per month , and the graph goes back a year from the current date , that way I know how much energy I use in any given month , house is completely electric, so when winter hits , of coarse so does the wattage , or anything that uses a lot of wattage.etc. AC in the summer, so it really doesnt matter here, and what little bit a couple of lights use , it really doesnt bring any attention. unless a guy were to get a little out hand and start causing blackouts on certain grids ,lol. then there would be reason to worry . Oh yeah , for the record I dont grow any thing in my home except,house plants that do not contain any cannabis varieties.

[slater]

As lone as the feds can come after me, she isn't changing her mind.

Oh well...any ideas? Please let me know...running out of ideas myself. :confused:[/QUOTE]


get a new ol' lady they are a dime a dozen

thats funny cause just yesterday my girl and i was looking at my garden and she says do you love me enough to stop growing this in the house. and i said no. women have to take the whole package...give them an inch, they take a mile, not just a foot.

she now is sorry that she ever even asked that question. as she should be. i would never let her take the fall and just have to re assure her every once in a while.

[ozzman]

Well, not to piss you off and/or say that you are to young or anything like that, but for someone to say, "get another old-lady, that their a dime a dozen" is way out of line.

I don't expect you or anyone else to understand because I have not posted all my personnal business for all to know. But I thing I will have you know...

I would live with this pain everyday, with no pills, smoke or anything to help me with the pain. I would go to hell and back for my lady. I'd take a bullet for her!!! I'd die for her if it ment her or me!!!

When you love someone, I mean really LOVE someone, your views on life change. That love is so strong that you can do superhuman things when needed (we had a fire a fews years back and it hurts like hell just to get up and piss, but when I heard the smoke allarm and saw those flames, all I remember was being outside and the people from next door telling me that I had carried her out and that they had to restrain me from going back in)

All I can really say is, "Dude, I can only hope that someday you to will find a love that strong!" You can still talk like one of the guys when your with your buddies and need to blow off a little steam but in your heart you know that your loved ones comes first. As a guy, I would have agreed with you, even 2 or 3 years after we got together I would have given it alot of thought.
But your soul mate will change you, and if that means that I'm not one of the guys anymore, than so be it. Because no matter what, I know in my heart and for a fact that she would do anything for me and she loves me as much if not more then love her. And her love helps my pain more then some smoke and/or pills. She is not a dime a dozen, She is a diamond in the rough!!! You are rich in life if you can find someone like her!

Slater, this was only said because of what I posted. My bad. This is not to say you said wrong, It's to say I said wrong. I should have not posted something like that if I didn't want someone sounding off about my old lady.
:D You have a right to opinion, just not about my wife. ;) :D :mad: :D
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Peace man, I just had to say that. Sorry if I stepped on some toes!

[zardoz]

In my view.. the best way to get a grow up and running without gathering unwanted attention.. is to slowly but surely bring UP your power ussage through other means. Take a couple to three months to bring your hydro bill up "close" to where you estimate your grow will take it. By doing this you don't show a "large" increase, other than the illeagal use of FLIR or the typical grow spot failures (no traffic is just about as bad as constant traffic in and out of the house.. covered windows.. a garage with zero snow on the roof.. etc...) you are just a family that doesn't know how to be cost efficient

THE single easiest way to get yourself busted for growing is to NOT pay your hydro bill, let that sucker add up.. don't pay it when it's due.. trust me.. once your account is held up in front of a trained bill collector.. they WILL notice an increase in your ussage. Now on the other hand.. if you pay your hydro bill relligiously and it NEVER gets in front of a human.. or into a computer collection program that has descriminatory features built in... you should be able to grow untill something else turns you over (see "complacenecy").

Now here is a question that is rellated... does anyone know for a FACT if the old urban myth is true.. Will a powerfull magnet "slow down" your hydro meter? (of course.. it best NOT be there when your meter reader comes along ;) ).

Gord

[zardoz]

are NOT what gets you busted.. it is the overall increase in power ussage. Spikes happen ALL the time.. some little some huge...but the fact remains.. the power company can't tell where "exactly" that spike came from (not yet at least). what tips off the power company.. is the sudden large increase in your monthly power consumption... bring up that ussage slowly and PAY YOUR BILL on time.. EVERY time and you should be good to go.

Let that power bill catch the attention of a human looking for the companies money or a collection program that does ussage comparisons.. and you might well get busted.

Here's a tip... go buy yourself a "dead" arc welder, go so far as to have a hook up point for it (even if it's not live), keep it in the garage out in the open.. make it look like it's a "daily use item" one you don't want to have to un-bury to use. It's NOT a "sure thing" but for a fast means of diversion it will serve it's purpose (I've found that cops "normally" WANT to find the "easiest answer") Of course.. this won't work if your garage is totally organized and the dead welder is the ONLY tool you own ;) But if it looks like it "could" be the cause.. quite often a cop will be happy enough to accept that.

Gord


So basicly, "There is NO way to cover the tale-tail spikes huh.... :(
Damm...That would have been my ace in the hole when trying to convince my old-lady to let me grow at home. As lone as the feds can come after me, she isn't changing her mind.

Oh well...any ideas? Please let me know...running out of ideas myself. :confused:

[zardoz]

Here's a sure way to loose the attention of the power company and the cops.. CLEAN your house.. get EVERYTHING out that is pot rellated.. then run up a BIG power bill... DON'T pay it! Let this happen untill you get the attention you do/don't want. LET the cops come and raid the house with the big power bill... then when the dust settles.. SUE them for harassment, complain that the "storm troopers" are out of controll... trying to bust an honest man that just happens to be having trouble with his power bill. Make trouble for them for causing you and your family so much trauma.

Where I live.. there is a known grow house.. the cops know it's there.. so do the courts. the reason it's still there and still running? Plain and simply harassment... the cops laid a harassment campaign on this guy for a long time.. NEVER getting what they needed to bust him (plus they ruffed him up)... so he laid his own charges.. in the end .. the courts have issued a "cease and desist" order on the police. Unless the police can provide "proof positive" that there is a garden in that house (it is ALL garden) the courts refuse to be embarresed again so will NOT issue a warrant. This is a true story.. I've been into the room and I've seen the newspaper clipping about the court cases, I've also seen the "peace bond" that was issued favourably for the grower (the police are not allowed outside of their cars within 50 feet on this mans property, unless they have a warrant or probable cause). Personally I think this guy is just working on "borrowed time"... but his borrowed time has so far lasted over 5 years...

Gord

[ozzman]

In the 80's, we had a little thing that the feds called,"Operation green merchant." They went to all the hydro shops in cali and grabbed up all the sales receits and busted the ones that were growing in the back. That happened in 1989. High-times told us in print that the feds wore kicking in doors to find the gardens from the mail-order sales. They got all of our addresses off the receits. They told all of us to start growing flowers and veggies and it worked. After a few veggie growers got busted, they stopped kicking in our doors.

Then High-times started printing ways to grow indoors and not get cought.
Ones of the things I remember was...
they said that each and everything eletrical has its own spike that is different fron the others. Meaning that, if they thought you were growing, they could watch the grid in your hood and be able to see spikes from lights.
Of course, they can't just look at the grid and see the lights going on and off, but they can see the spikes if they are watching you and gathering info on you and your grow. (Like in the casinos, if your working and stealing, they let you keep on doing what your doing until they have a solid case. So times, they let them keep going for 6 months before they step in for the bust.)

My question was... is this true? And can an UPS (uninterrupted power supply) Stop them from seeing the spike? I was told it could but can't remember where that info came from.

Does anyone have knowage about UPS's.
I wasn't talking about power useage and have know trouble paying for and managing my power useage. But thanks for all the insight. I still learned a few things even though the question was misunderstood. :) :) :)

[ozzman]

morning zar, looking forward to your response! :)

[zardoz]

You will need a HUGE UPS to smooth out the start up of even a small light... and I do mean HUGE. The problem here is the initail amperage draw that hits upon the lamp ignition. My best advice to decrease the "size" of that spike.. is to wire the lights for 220 volts.. this effectively reduces the amperage consumed by half. It does nothing towards saving power, it does allow you to run slightly smaller guage wire due to the decrease in amperage draw.. so in short.. if a 110 volt lamp spikes 15 amps on ignition.. if you wire the same lamp for 220 it will only spike 7.5 amps on start up.

Maybe this will help?

Gord

[ozzman]

Thanks zar, you the man!!! :)

[ozzman]

Any idea on how big?

[zardoz]

A side note.. I have available to me a couple of HUGE ups's. The guy wants 200 bucks a piece for them.. now when I say huge.. I do mean HUGE.. it would take two physically fit men to lift even one of them. They run on 220 volts.. if the guy would warranty the batteries inside the units for at least 6 months I'd consider buying one or both of them.. as it stands.. I could buy these and find out I need to invest close to a thousand dollars to put fresh gel cells in them :(

I WAS going to buy them for our regular power outages here.. I did the callculations.. when opperating properly.. they would have supported my room for a grand total of about 15 minutes of no powre from the grid, if I cut back to a single 1000 I could extend that time to 30 minutes... hardly worth the expenditure.

I want a diesel generator soo bad!!!! :(

Gord

[zardoz]

ozz how much lamp will be going through the ups? 1000 watt? 400? 150?

[ozzman]

1 400 and 1 1000

[Stinky]

Here is an alternative that might help both of you out. http://www.solardepot.com/r_saving_you_money.htm

[Stinky]

Or maybe here, http://www.mrsolar.com/ Hope this is atleast food for thought.

And thanks lesliechet good to be out from hibernation.

[ozzman]

Thanks Stinky, we are buying a house is summer and that will help alot.
Cool link!!! I'll get into it later today, Thanks again!

[Grant]

Here is an alternative that might help both of you out. http://www.solardepot.com/r_saving_you_money.htm
Holy crap!!! Looking at these power rates...pure insanity. Can you say GOUGE?

San Diego Gas and Electric

Tier 1 - 13.4 cents/kWh
Tier 2 - 16.0 cents/kWh
Tier 3 - 16.9 cents/kWh
Tier 4 - 17.8 cents/kWh
Tier 5 - 19.4 cents/kWh

[zardoz]

Well here is a couple of specs from the APC site...Estimated Resale Price* : CAD1,542.64
(USD1,250.00) for model number SUA3000RM2U.

Output power capacity 3000 VA
Output power capacity 2700 watts
Max Configurable Power 3000 VA
Max Configurable Power 2700 watts
Nominal output voltage 120V
Efficiency at full load 95 %
Output Voltage Distortion Less than 5% at full load
Output Frequency (sync to mains) 47-53Hz for 50Hz nominal , 57-63Hz for 60Hz nominal
Crest Factor up to 5 : 1
Waveform type Sine wave

Output power capacity of 2700 watts, yes this is likely bigger than you need.. but not by much.. what it does do is give you an idea of just what kind of bucks you are looking at. BIG bucks!

Personally I am more interested in finding out if the "magnet" trick works ;)

Gord

[ozzman]

Damm, if I had that kind of cash i'd just buy us all a generator buddy...lol

[ozzman]

Thanks bro, U still the man. We need to take up a collection for your birthday to get you that generator... get a propane one and you can sell me your co2 burner you just got...lol :D

[zardoz]

ozz I hear ya there.. thats why I left the two units I found right where they were.. even at 200 bucks a piece.. the battery replacement costs would be wayy out of my league.

Personally.. I'm going to start collecting my battery bank, I'm looking for the BIG cells used in an "off the grid" electrical system.. I'm going to gather them as I can find them.. and slowly but surely I intend to get our house off the grid. I'm going to start by only providing off grid power to the low amperage systems in our house.. then as our system builds in storage capacity I will eventually convert to a fully off grid sittuation (which means spending even more money.. gotta have "efficient" appliances and such).

I hope to have my greenhouse built onto my grow room by this time next year.. once I have that.. I will only run my lights to suppliment my plants when the sun goes down.

Gord

[Grant]

Princess Auto has a 5KW generator for $300....needs and 8 horse motor capable of maintaining 3200RPM

Does anyone know how much of a current draw an 8HP electric motor would have?

[zardoz]

You don't happen to have a link for that genny do you? I can get small 3cyl diesels for VERY cheap ;)

Gord


Princess Auto has a 5KW generator for $300....needs and 8 horse motor capable of maintaining 3200RPM

Does anyone know how much of a current draw an 8HP electric motor would have?

[Grant]

You don't happen to have a link for that genny do you? I can get small 3cyl diesels for VERY cheap ;)

Gord
princessauto.com you have to download the catalogue in pdf.

[1JoeSky_IVXX]

You should see NY's


Holy crap!!! Looking at these power rates...pure insanity. Can you say GOUGE?

San Diego Gas and Electric

Tier 1 - 13.4 cents/kWh
Tier 2 - 16.0 cents/kWh
Tier 3 - 16.9 cents/kWh
Tier 4 - 17.8 cents/kWh
Tier 5 - 19.4 cents/kWh

[slater]

wasent meant to stir any shit ozzman, sorry if you thought i was talking about your ola' wasent meant to sound like that. it just happend that my girl aproched me just yesterday asking me if i loved her enough to stop growing and my answer was a stern NO. she came into this relationship knowing full well that i grew my own meds. i do love my girl...real feelings. longest relationship i ever been in my whole life type of relationship.
sorry i shoulda started my own thread or just kept my thoughts to myself. but now its out there for everyone to see.

looks like you have found the answer you were looking for though. i really like the idea of having solar power or one of them propane powered generators. i been eyeballing them at home depot. very nice and i thought they were reasonable at i think a little over 8000.00 dollars. only problem is i dont own my own home so just a dream until then. they have all sizes to choose from here http://www.shopping.com/xGS-propane_generators~NS-1~linkin_id-3062406
good luck and grow on.

[zardoz]

Grant.. I have the PA catalouge now.. I see the 5K genny (belt drive.. but thats adaptable..) but the price in my catalouge is 499.99 plus tax?

Gord

PS: with this.. and one of these 3 cyl diesels (the ones from "reefer units".. how appropriate.. a "reefer" motor will supply the juice to keep my "reefer" factory up and running.. I could go a step further.. and run the "reefer" motor on hemp oil! LOL)

[zardoz]

shit.. now i REALLY want one!


damit Grant! just look what you did to me!

[1JoeSky_IVXX]

What page???? LMAO

[zardoz]

page 73 :)

[Grant]

Grant.. I have the PA catalouge now.. I see the 5K genny (belt drive.. but thats adaptable..) but the price in my catalouge is 499.99 plus tax?

Gord

PS: with this.. and one of these 3 cyl diesels (the ones from "reefer units".. how appropriate.. a "reefer" motor will supply the juice to keep my "reefer" factory up and running.. I could go a step further.. and run the "reefer" motor on hemp oil! LOL)
$299.00 of the rack in the West. Regional pricing?

There are propane "reefer" engines too :D

[lesliechet]

Or maybe here, http://www.mrsolar.com/ Hope this is atleast food for thought.

And thanks lesliechet good to be out from hibernation.
Yes stinky it's great to see you up and around and kicking,lol.

[slater]

http://www.expressrealtyandloans.com/id89.htm

i just heard on the news that they are composting poop to make enough power to supply the farm and sell the rest...enough to supply over a hundred homes

[Green Medicine]

There is a company in Cali that runs a gormet creamery -Strauss Organic- and dairy and uses methane to make steam for hot water and sterilizing. The methane comes from "poo pits" filled with cow waste and a special bacteria, each pit has a sealed cover that keep odors down. Methane is also collected to run generators to power the dairy including 60 HID lights. They sell surplus electricity back to the utility company.

BTW It is a European sweet butter. Regular butter is about 76-80% butterfat while European butters range from 84-87%. This may seem trivial but remember it is the butterfat that exacts the cannabinoids so a 8-11 % increase in butterfat will result in a more efficient extraction and stronger bud butter. European style butter comes from a number of manufacturers including Plugra from upstate New York, Strauss Organic, and recently Challenge European Style. All perfect for hi-potency cannabutter!

Now all I need is some cows....free cannabutter and amps for all.


*clip of text from Dr.Jay C. on why Euro butter is better for bud butter

[ozzman]

Is there a line or do I start one :D