Help!

[CiscoKid]

I flushed my plants for like 2 to 3 hours and then switched them over to 12's 2 days ago. They were doing great and still are except for one is wilting really bad, i checked the ph and it was to high and i think that there might not have been enough bubbles in the tank, i fixed both, but i just wanted to see what you guys thought about this ? Is it going to survive ? hope so im pretty sure its a she.

[clinton]

I flushed my plants for like 2 to 3 hours and then switched them over to 12's 2 days ago. They were doing great and still are except for one is wilting really bad, i checked the ph and it was to high and i think that there might not have been enough bubbles in the tank, i fixed both, but i just wanted to see what you guys thought about this ? Is it going to survive ? hope so im pretty sure its a she.

You don't say by it sounds like you are growing using Deep Water Culture (DWC). This is a risky way to grow as the roots are subject to disease. Shocked plants may survive but do not produce as well.

Here are some tips:

1. Use the best air pump you can buy. I pump 16 liters of air per minute in each bucket.

2. I use SubCulture by General Hydroponics - beneficial organisms protect roots from pathogenic bacteria and fungi. I also recommend Canazym (sp) which helps plant remove dead material which is a food source for bad organisms.

3. Keep your water cold. I use a chiller and keep the root temperature at 65 degrees. More dissolved oxygen, faster growth.

I built a recirculating DWC system that take little attention and grows large health plants. I maintain the pH and TDS in a reservoir which is so much easier than stand alone buckets. Keep pH about 5.8.

clinton

[CiscoKid]

Well i just added another pump to the mix. I have been adding ph down too.
My water is cold enough to drink, but not like refridgerator cold.

coenzyme ? Thats all i found, but in other products, who makes it ?
That subculture, will that help against root rot ? Im pretty sure my wilting problem this time was not enough bubbles and a high ph, but the roots seem like they are dieing, but there are new ones comming from the bunch. I use liquid karma and the roots turn brown when they suck it up, so its hard to tell.

Thanks for the advice man

[Red Sky]

:) You Might want to add a SUB. pump too @250gph min. and top feed your sytem too:)

[Pistol Pete]

I Won't Grow Without My Cannazym;)
Heres The Link http://www.growguide.info
Also I Am Now Sold On Bio Pac beneficial Bacteria ;) http://www.vitalink.eu
What temps In Your resevoir ? , And How Much D.O ( Dissolved Oxygen ) Are You registering?
The Cooler The Water, The Higher The D.O Levels
I Love GHE And Use Three Part All The Way Thru Bioponics ( Organic Hydroponics , As Developed By A Mr William Texier ) I Use Bio Sevia http://www.eurohydro.com
PP

[Pistol Pete]

Products Which Will Help;
Guardian Angel
PYthoff
Rot Stop
More Aeration And Less Stagnation

PPhttp://www.hydrogarden.com;)

[lequebecfume]

I have a question of you Ciscokid.

Why the flush before going to 12/12 ?

I've only ever flushed the last 2 weeks.

peace and hope they have recovered

leq

[clinton]

Well i just added another pump to the mix. I have been adding ph down too.
My water is cold enough to drink, but not like refridgerator cold.

coenzyme ? Thats all i found, but in other products, who makes it ?
That subculture, will that help against root rot ? Im pretty sure my wilting problem this time was not enough bubbles and a high ph, but the roots seem like they are dieing, but there are new ones comming from the bunch. I use liquid karma and the roots turn brown when they suck it up, so its hard to tell.

Thanks for the advice man
The SubCulture is a mix of beneficial bacteria and fungi. It protects against disease which kills roots. Dead and rotting roots have a slimy texture. Sniff for foul odors. DWC growing is risky as the bare roots can be infected by lots of organisms. High pH is not good as it will limit how much nutrients that are available for the plants.

I do know people who grow in stand alone buckets, but the risks and work are high. I use 66 liters per minute air pump - one pump for 4 buckets. I suspect that your roots died of low dissolved O2 - roots in water without enough O2 literally suffocate and die.

clinton

[CiscoKid]

Hey lequebecfume,
i flushed because they were only about 22 inches or so and they stopped advancing in height, also one bag seed plant started getting burned so i wanted to stop it before it got any worse, also i just thought different bottle, diff numbers, might as well start it on a clean slate... but they did hit a growth spurt right after i put them in the new nutrient solution, so it helped i geuss.
No sign of recovery yet but im keeping my fingers crossed, stil got 5 more so it could be worse

[CiscoKid]

Should the root and root tips always be firm fealing and white? These ones on that wilting plant are mushy fealing, im going to order some of that cannazyme tomorrow and get my hands on some subculture too.
What do you do with the dead roots in this situation? Cut ?

[clinton]

Should the root and root tips always be firm fealing and white? These ones on that wilting plant are mushy fealing, im going to order some of that cannazyme tomorrow and get my hands on some subculture too.
What do you do with the dead roots in this situation? Cut ?

Mushy roots = dying and rotting. The Cannazym disolves the dead cellulose. Your grow is sick and no matter what you do, you may not be able to save them. If you see the sick roots you can cut.

If you search the TY site looking for "DWC" or "Deep Water Culture" you will find lots of info here on DIY systems etc.

clinton

[bitycloneuk]

I flushed my plants for like 2 to 3 hours and then switched them over to 12's 2 days ago. They were doing great and still are except for one is wilting really bad, i checked the ph and it was to high and i think that there might not have been enough bubbles in the tank, i fixed both, but i just wanted to see what you guys thought about this ? Is it going to survive ? hope so im pretty sure its a she.


did they survive? and what caused this? looks like high humidity and temp ?and maybe to much nutes

[salmayo]

I'm not sure if you are using DWC or some other form of hydro but,...

The average O2 content of soil and soilless mixtures is greater than that of standing water, which is why Hydro systems rely on pumps to either move the water arround oxygenating it or to put air bubbles directly into the mix.

Oxygenated water will lose O2 gas back to the air as it sits.

If microbial action is present the O2 in the solution can get used up quickly and an anarobic condition can result and with it a downward pH shift due to acidic carbonic acid (CO2) being present in greater quantities. I've never seen the pH go up much thou.

Since you flushed your plants, another thing to consider is osmotic pressure damage. As the plant sits with it's roots in plain water, rather than a higher osmotic pressure solution like typical nutrient solutions, the osmotic pressure difference causes the plant's tissues to swell (bloat) with higher than average water content, and even after the plants are given regular osmotic pressure solutions again, they may already be damaged and after swelling with extra water, they may wilt as if starved for water. This condition could also be localized in one area of the plant depending on the damage.

If this latter condition is present the plant may take some time to recover and the best you can do for it is give it good growing conditions, especially water conditions for the roots (pH, Oxygen and Nutes). If you are sure the damage is located in the roots, then you can treat the plant for more root growth with low N (Nitrogen), Medium to high P (Phosphorus) and medium to high K (Potassium).

In addition to neutrient range and pH range boundaries, the other boundarys for good root health are limited by too little H2O and too little O2, since with enough O2 you can't have too much H2O and it's hard to have too much O2 if you have enough H2O.

Plants starved for O2 at the roots will wilt as if starved for water, even though they are often overwaterred and the roots are drownding and starving for air so they can pump the water up to the other parts of the plant (even though they have too much water at the roots). It's the lack of O2 to the roots thats the problem not the excess of water.

[kronic_phatigue]

DON'T CUT DEAD ROOTS! not unless you're absolutely sure its dead and can be removed without harming the other roots. Serious root cutting will just kill the plant.

From the blades of the leaves on your plants, I would say it's overfert. Or the roots just aren't getting enough water. Empty the resivoir and flush with room temp water. Try and keep your pH as steady as possible.

A little bit of hydrogen peroxide will help keep the roots white and clean. A capful per gal is all i use. (unless you've already bought the expensive stuff mentioned above)

Keep updating. I'd like to know how others DWC is working for them. I've had a rough start with mine.

[CiscoKid]

Well i cut the roots just because i didnt see them pulling out of it, so i said why not, but there was no change. And im thinking that flushing them got them into this mess along with lack of oxygen, ever since i added another pump to the mix the others are loving it.
(Keepig PH steady is a pain in the rear and i have a question about that i will ask in a minute.)
I have added H2O2 to the mix through its life but not excesive amounts so i may have under did it.
But yes a shakey start indeed but lets just say i know what to do next time and it should go pretty smooth.
I do think i am going to drill some air holes on under the rims the tubs where the light cant get in so the roots out of water can get some air.
I did order that cannazym and it should be here wed. but we'll see how that works out for all of them and im going to grab a packet or two of that subculture at the local grow shop and see what that can do. Probably gonna be alot useful right of the start next time.

[CiscoKid]

I use the water right outa my faucet, and the PH is 8 and above when tested. And i have got my nute solution right in between 5 and 6 range but it shoots back up to around seven by the next day.
Now there is dif types of water Revers osmosis, distilled, tap, well water and i think that might be considered hard water? and hey bottled drininking water... man would that get expensive ha.
But my question is: Would using a diff type of water reduce that ph jump i have? or does it have a to be a check 3 or more times a day thing?

[Pistol Pete]

Yes You Remove All Mushy Roots As Soon As Possible And Then Considering Your Urgency I Would Resort To A Hydrogen Peroxide Seehttp://www.growthtechnology.com, And Immediatley Flush Your System/resevoir A Few Times @ A Lower PH 5 , Quarter Strength Feed
You May , And I'll Say It Does Not Sound From Your Report That This Is Early Stage BOTRYTIS, Or Pythium
It Sounds Advanced
But Not All Is Lost; There Is Little Point Of Using Cannazym Now , As You Really Need The Antiseptic Properties Of Hydrogen Peroxide Whilst H202, Or Dissolved Oxygen Only Acts As A Secondary , Yet beneficial " Double Attack " At Curing Your Problem
Also ; You need To Find Some Opaque White Plastic To Reflect The Heat From Your Lights
Maintaining A Low temperature During The Summer Months Is critical
Consider Running A MJ1000 Pump In Your Resevoir , As Well As Air Stones
Agitating Water Is Not Condusive With Nasty Bugs
Also Consider A UV Filter Like These Bioponic Safegaurds ( In Fact This Link Will Help With" Preventative Information " I Find Most Useful ) http://www.eurohydro.com

BUT : NEVER Use Cannazym And Hydrogen Peroxide Together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
PP

[clinton]

It is a pain to maintain stand alone buckets. It is also hard to keep the water cool enough to carry the oxygen the plants need.

I built a recirculating DWC system that uses two main pumps, a reservoir, a sump bucket where grow buckets drain, and misc buckets, hose etc.

I use 5 gallon black grow buckets. I drill a drain for 3/4 hose about 11 inches from the buckets bottom. I use a bucket lid called a top hat - which is lid with 6 inch basket centered where a plant may be placed. I grow babies in a flood drain veg room to develop roots.

The grow bucket drains into another bucket (sump bucket) and attachés with 3/4 fittings about 1 1/2 inches from the bucket bottom. A pump in this bucket pump all water back to reservoir.

The buckets are fed water through 1/2 in fitting attached to the lid where the water pours down without hitting the basket. A timer turns the feed pump on for about 45 second every 5 minutes. As the water feeds the grow buckets, the water over flows out the top fitting, and drains down to the sump. The sump runs 24/7 pumping water back to the reservoir..

Expand this to as many buckets that you are using.

You must be able to keep water temperatures in the mid 60's. I keep my water at 65 degrees. I use a commercial water chiller with titanium plumbing to keep water cold. Other metals with leach into your nutrients.

I use a 66 liter per minute high pressure air pump for every 4 grow buckets. I use a matching air stone - large Grey made of stone. The water foams.

This system is used in a well insulated grow suite, with Vortex fans, AC, CO2 generator, Green House controller, dehumidifier, etc. I add water daily to the reservoir and I add what ever is needed at that time. Oh ya - 1 600 watt digital system per plant.

I get an average yield of 18 ounces per plant in typical grows. Some plants really produce 24 or more, but if sick the yield drops fast. It takes about 1 month in the flood drain table, then moved to the buckets and vegged 2-4 weeks as needed. All plants are SCROG-ed. I can bloom.

Use any supplies that I or Pistol Pete have recommended. Get a quality TDS and pH meter. Test daily. get help at harvest time.

When I move plants from F/D to buckets, I drip feed them for about two weeks to make sure no roots dry out before they reach the water.

clinton

[CiscoKid]

So is cannazym a, "headache pill" for your plants where you only use it when you need it? Or are you suppose to use it from start to finish?

[Richi420]

I would like to say throw out the Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) and keep with the cannazym. h2o2 will add oxygen to your water and kill some harmful organizms but it will also kill benefitial organizms. It sounds like you have enough O2 bubbling so personally I dont think using Hydrogen Peroxide would help you in the long run.But to each there own. Peace

[Pistol Pete]

I Do Consider Cannazym A Magic Bullet And Always Use And reccomend It , However If You Do Have Pythium, Then Cannazym Is Not Going To Eradicate The Problem Quickly Enough
I Would Only Use Oxy Plus ( h202 ) During This crisis
It Is Always better To Flush With A Mild, Or Dilute Nutrient Content Than Plain Water ( Jorge Cervantes)
You Can Aquire Specialist products Like Pythoff Or Even PHIX-IT Which Help
But Having Your PH Raise By Such Amount Is Odd ??
I Use 20 Litre Containers When Growing DWC And Change The Nutes Every Five days
Revisit GHE or Eurohydro.com And Click On ; " To Know More ";)

[Pistol Pete]

Heres My Last DWC Project ( Cheese ) Finished In April
Pete

[clinton]

Heres My Last DWC Project ( Cheese ) Finished In April
Pete

Nice crop. I also SCROG my plants with a 2ftx3ft screen. I often get 100 or more colas per plant. DWC can grow like on steroids but can die just as fast without environment controls and protective products like that cannazym and benificial micro orgnisms.

clinton

[CiscoKid]

Have you guys ever ran into this before? How do you fix that when the roots are hanging in air? But It really dosnt seem to effecting the plant.

[Pistol Pete]

It Looks Fuzzy ?????????/
But Yes Its Normal
During The Time I Took These Images I Was Topping Up Every Two Days :eek:
Anyhow I Finally Found These Images
The Browning Is caused By The Cannazym;)
Also These Images Should deter Anyone from Not Making Their Own DWC;)
Pete:D

[Pistol Pete]

Well , I've Been Through My Book Of Links , And "Heres Looking At You Kid" , lol:p
How Are Things ?
Pete:)http://www.marinedepot.com

[Pistol Pete]

I Have Been Trawling Through My Galleries And have Some More Ideas And Other Images
Lets See What We've Got:)
Pete