duff butter troubleshoot...

[BigJnWorldWide]

Okay I usually use this place for info but now I actually need some help. I've read pretty much every thread on here about using vaped meds to make "duff" butter. My last foree(sp?) into baking brownies was a success. I made a couple batches of the packaged betty crocker brownie mix and they were amazing!!! I was still feeling the effects intensely the next day at work after eating only 3.

Now I tried it again but I made cookies instead. I did use a crock pot to make the duff butter though and last time I used a pan on my stove. I ate 3 last night and I really didn't feel anything.

I don't know if anyone can help or if this is even in the right section. But here is some essential info if you care to help.

1st bake:

Stove top duff butter:
-28g vaped meds
-5 sticks of generic butter (some butter was burned off)
-heated for 12 hours via stove top brought to simmering
-preped and baked per bettys instructions
-my world was turned upside down

2nd bake:

Crock pot butter:
-28g vaped meds/stems
-4 sticks of generic butter
-heated in crock pot for 16 hours
-preped and baked at 290 for 20 mins after reading about buring all the THC of of the mixture
-3 cookies felt like...........3 cookies. :(


Okay now I only baked a few to see how they would come out so I have more cookie dough left. The origonal tollhouse cookie recipe call for a bake at 375 for 9 mins. Does anyone reccomend I try the origonal recipe or are there concerns about the way the butter was made?

Oh yeah FYI, both med batches were mixtures of funk and mids of all kinds. Nothing is very consistent in my area....as far as I know. Please help, I'd like to get a consisten bake to enjoy on special occasions. Thanks to all who can help. :)

I sincerely apologize if this is in the wrong section. I'm trying to fight off an anxiety attack with some 7-11 breathing cause my cookies didn't turn out like my brownies. If it can be moved to the appropriate section I would appreciate that was well.

[Smokin Moose]

You got the right sub-forum so no need to move. I can't help re the duff butter but I am sure others can.
Thanks for sharing the recipes mate. I will follow this and see what the others advise you on.

[BigJnWorldWide]

Thanks for the reassurance SmokinMoose. Glad I got it right the 1st time.


I just had a thought. The butter had solidified after I made it and the cookie recipe called for softened butter. I used a microwave to soften it up a bit. Would a microwave possibly kill all the THC in my tincture?

[Smokin Moose]

Microwaves per se will not damage the THC - but, the heat generated by the microwaves may have an impact. I am not sure why but oils tend to get very hot in a microwave. If you only defrosted and did not boil the butter, I reckon you can rule that out,mate.

[Diskrete]

The only thing I can think of is that your second batch did not cook as long as needed. I always do the stove top method with great success, in smaller batches. I have heard of people using a crock pot for almost 24 hours. I am sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[BigJnWorldWide]

Nice!!! I learned something today. Unfortunately the butter did boil in the microwave. :( lesson learned I guess.

In for any other diagnosyseseseses. lol

[pflover]

Stove top duff butter:
-28g vaped meds
-5 sticks of generic butter (some butter was burned off)
-heated for 12 hours via stove top brought to simmering
-preped and baked per bettys instructions
-my world was turned upside down

wow you got that kind of effect from such a high butter to duff ratio? I usually use 2 sticks for this size of batch.


preped and baked at 290 for 20 mins after reading about buring all the THC of of the mixture

When making cookies I usually take the opposite approach.... by using the highest heat for the shortest time possible to get the job done. like for those cookies i would try 5min at 400*, soft in the center is a good thing. not so with brownies and breads tho. next time try banana bread if you can. there are a couple great recipes here for it. I like the one by yrekagrow.

now for making that second batch of duff, did you use water in the crockpot? (no nuking it will not kill the THC, if anything it will boost THC by converting some of the CBD to THC) I never have a problem thawing my butter in the microwave down to a runny state.

the water question is an important one to me because when making duff butter i have always first sauteed for like 1-2hr until the butter had picked up that warm nutty flavor of the duff and then added water for another few hours before straining and separating. otherwise if duff is being added a big batch of leaf butter i just added it into the pot with the leaf water and butter and have never given much thought to whether or not this was effective. :o

[BigJnWorldWide]

The only thing I can think of is that your second batch did not cook as long as needed. I always do the stove top method with great success, in smaller batches. I have heard of people using a crock pot for almost 24 hours. I am sorry I couldn't be of more help.

That's another good point. I might have messed up on the whole microwave bit and the simmerinng length. I think next time I'll stick to stovetop. Time to recollect.

[BigJnWorldWide]

wow you got that kind of effect from such a high butter to duff ratio? I usually use 2 sticks for this size of batch.
I have no excuse...I'm a lightweight. I enjoy it though cause it doesn't take much ease my back pain. On the other hand I should try to use your ratio. I could maximize how many treat I get to bake. Thank you for that.



When making cookies I usually take the opposite approach.... by using the highest heat for the shortest time possible to get the job done. like for those cookies i would try 5min at 400*, soft in the center is a good thing. not so with brownies and breads tho. next time try banana bread if you can. there are a couple great recipes here for it. I like the one by yrekagrow.

now for making that second batch of duff, did you use water in the crockpot? (no nuking it will not kill the THC, if anything it will boost THC by converting some of the CBD to THC) I never have a problem thawing my butter in the microwave down to a runny state.

the water question is an important one to me because when making duff butter i have always first sauteed for like 1-2hr until the butter had picked up that warm nutty flavor of the duff and then added water for another few hours before straining and separating. otherwise if duff is being added a big batch of leaf butter i just added it into the pot with the leaf water and butter and have never given much thought to whether or not this was effective. :o

As soon as I get off work I'll try another small batch to see if that works any better. Again thank you for the advice. I just hope the butter to duff ratio isn't such a huge factor.

As for the water addition, I didn't go through that step but I will give the next go round a try with that.

Stupid qustion: I have the other half of the butter batch (1/2 cup) in the freezer. Is there any way of intensifying its effect without the duff?

[pflover]

use the other half for making this batch, reconstitue it. I would not use a crockpot without water personally.... it is totally possible the crockpot alone is responsible for the loss off effect by scortching the goodies.... this is more likely that microwave IMPO. one thing the water does for longer unattended batches is keep the temp at a reasonable level but it also pulls out some of the water soluable impurities that make the butter less pleasant.

[BigJnWorldWide]

use the other half for making this batch, reconstitue it. I would not use a crockpot without water personally.... it is totally possible the crockpot alone is responsible for the loss off effect by scortching the goodies.... this is more likely that microwave IMPO. one thing the water does for longer unattended batches is keep the temp at a reasonable level but it also pulls out some of the water soluable impurities that make the butter less pleasant.


Okay that sounds like a plan but.....I'm not sure what you mean by constitute it. If you could elaborate I'd appreciate it.

The next time I use a croc pot I'll put the butter in a pyrex measuring cup surrounded by water in the crock pot.

[allmanjoy]

Reconsitute means melt butter in water that you already have.

You are close and Duff butter can be very good. I use 1 0z to 1 stick of butter. I use the water on stove method. I put 2 cups of water in for each batch. Bring water boil put in butter. I use clarified butter. then turn down heat after butter melted and add oz. let that simmer covered for 4-8 hours. 175 degrees.
The trick I have found is extracting all the budder from the wet herb and found using cheese cloth and twisting works well. also heating up water and pouring small amount on cheesecloth herb seems to draw more out as u continue to twist.
You won't eat 3 cookies of this and not fall asleep....
I like smaller portions eating.
I get 20 doses from cookies made from one stick.

[pflover]

ok.... the cannabinoid goodies are the constituent of interest.... you already tried to make cannabutter with that butter so if you try again with the same butter it would be reconstituting it (i.e., run the same butter through the whole process again). reconstituted means processed twice.

you seem to have totally missed the mark with the whole water thing as well. the point is not to double boil as you have described but to have a two layer extraction. one layer is water the other is butter. you use the crockpot to heat this mix for 24hrs. then strain out all the plant matter and chill. this makes the butter harden and it is then easily separated from the water. try not to burn yourself doing the straining.

unlike AMJ here i just add everything to the pan at once if using water and bring it to a boil then turn it down to a simmer for 24 hours.

[jb247]

and one that works well for me...I don't like extracting into butter as it simply takes too long. Butters can take 24 hrs. or more before you have a usable product, and I'm too darned impatient for all that, so I use canola oil to extract. It only takes 45 minutes to do and works great consistantly. My method is this...Put a frying pan on the stove with 1/2 cup + two tablespoons extra (absorbtion) of canola. Set the heat between low and medium. Then I grind up 1/4 oz. of bud and add 1/4 oz. of duff (left over from the vaporizer). Sprinkle a bit of the green into the oil, if it sizzles, turn the heat down. When you can add a sprinkle of green without the sizzle, throw all of the green into the oil and stir, and stir, and stir for appox. 30-45 minutes. (the longer you cook the better the extraction). Allow this to cool, then run through a strainer. I use a gold coffee filter (under $10 at any kitchen supply), squeeze the green to get all of the oil out. Use the oil in any recipe that calls for it. I use boxed mixes to make brownies and muffins, use the oil for making salad dressing, or simply add to spaghetti. I get 5 doz. mini-muffins from 1/2 cup of oil. This titrates well for a 150 lb. person = 1 mini-muffin. Thus I can get 60 doses from this amount, more than enough for your average stoner Halloween party! The nicest thing about using the oil extraction is that you neither smell, nor taste any cannabis flavour at all.
As for your problem with that second batch of cookies, I think it will likely prove to be that the cannabis used in the second batch was of lower quality, that is the only possibility that comes to mind. I cook all of my foods at the recommended temps and my muffins have become quite popular at gatherings of the M/M folks here in Michigan, so much so, that Swampy dubbed me "The Muffin Man" after recieving relief from pain for the whole day at the Hash Bash this spring...quite an honor for me!

Peace...j.b. aka Muffin Man

[allmanjoy]

[QUOTE=jb247] Then I grind up 1/4 oz. of bud and add 1/4 oz. of duff (left over from the vaporizer).

So using all duff would you use 1/2 oz or more>?
Might have to try this. Also how do you store the oil after making?

[jb247]

[QUOTE=jb247] Then I grind up 1/4 oz. of bud and add 1/4 oz. of duff (left over from the vaporizer).

So using all duff would you use 1/2 oz or more>?
Might have to try this. Also how do you store the oil after making?

Never done this using straight duff, not sure what the results would be...another interesting quandry...lol

You store any additional oil in the refridgerator, in a dark bottle. Should store that way for a couple of months, just make sure that you shake the oil before using, as the good stuff has a tendency to go to the bottom...

Peace...j.b.

[BigJnWorldWide]

Okay, I reconstituted the other half of the butter using water on the stovetop and I do notice more potency in the batch of cookies I made.

I don't know if this is because of my bodys individual chemical makeup but I feel that the stovetop makes for a better extraction. I feel almost as good as my very first batch of brownies a few months ago. Of course the brownie recipe called for an entire 1lb (4 sticks) of butter so essentially I was eating twice as much....maybe more based on serving sizes.

Lesson(s) for today:

-Use stovetop/water method
-Use 2 oz as opposed to 1 oz
-I love TY and all its members :)

Thanks for all the help guys. Everyone has been a big help and I honestly learned more than I thought I knew.

[pflover]

I still think that you probably burned your goodies in the crockpot and if you tried the crockpot with water you'd have normal results.

Glad tho you've solved your issue. :D

[BigJnWorldWide]

I still think that you probably burned your goodies in the crockpot and if you tried the crockpot with water you'd have normal results.

Glad tho you've solved your issue. :D


I agree with you that I burned it in the crockpot. I never got the same familiar buttery smell I got when I used the stove top when I made brownies months ago. The kitchen was filled with that wonderful aroma last time but not this time. When I reconstituted the other half of what I had the smell returned and I knew it was working. Now it wasn't as potent as it was months ago but I did get something out of it. I'm still skepticall on using a crockpot again though. I'll probably stick with what works for me. If it aint broke, don't fix it, right?

Hopefully using your butter to duff ratio and water for the net extraction, I'll have some showstopping products. :) however I am thinking about using fresh meds this time but I like the idea of using the duff instead of fresh. Waste not want not. :) we'll see. Thanks again pflover.

[pflover]

stove top requires pritty close monitoring to be safe in my opinion where as a crockpot is designed for such use, that is the one serious advantage with it.

I can't help it. your assessment of the crockpot is unfair to the crockpot and bugs me as bias for no reason. :rolleyes: I gots to get over myself I guess. lol

[BigJnWorldWide]

Maybe I just haven't found enough reading material on using the crock pot method. I read for 2 months straight about doing cannabutter on the stove. My 1st time doing it was a great success (for a lightweight) it put me on my butt.

I'd be more than excited if you have any links to more info on using the crock pot. I've read a lot of them but they all seem to be similar only with cooking times being the variant. I work a 10 hour shift today with no actual work so I'm all about reading. :) Hook it up girl!!! lol

[pflover]

not sure what all you need. 1-2 sicks butter per oz of plant material (when using bud or duff), 1-2quarts water per oz depending on room in the crock pot and how much plant matter is used. combine ingredients and cook of 24 hours. shorter times can work but 24 tends to work pritty reliably for getting just about everything out. you want enough water that it will not al evaporate while you are asleep or at work. when done cooking cool to warm but not cold. strain squeezing all the butter out you can. chill until butter is hard. separate, store in freezer, ready to use as is.

http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=805159 (threads referencing butter and crockpot)

[sawmaw]

I have a question about this too. Can sugar leaves be used? Should they be dried and cured like normal bud? or is this a "bud" only receipe. My bro, has about 3 oz of trimmed leaves, sugar leaves and those little tiny buds from the bottom of the plant in the freezer. Can that be used? It's still fresh, just frozen. We tried it once, but it was really wasn't the best tasting.. I like PF's Idea as I use that when making fresh stock and making if fat free. I cook the meat, strain, and let it sit in the fridge overnight. I then pull the fat off and then reduce the stock, in some cases, I may render the fat to clarify it for roux, but only rarely. Would that be good too? to heat the butter again, to clarify it more after it's been "cooked" and strained? Would it ruin the thc content?

[allmanjoy]

stove top requires pritty close monitoring to be safe in my opinion where as a crockpot is designed for such use, that is the one serious advantage with it.

I can't help it. your assessment of the crockpot is unfair to the crockpot and bugs me as bias for no reason. :rolleyes: I gots to get over myself I guess. lol

We are just going to have to refer to you as the Crock Pot Queen. :)
I know it works well and does save worrying about boiling water instead of keeping it at 175 etc etc.....and u can do the 24 hours easy....
I just never had a crock pot!!!!!!!!

But I have had a few queens and they know what they are talking about......;)

[pflover]

I have a question about this too. Can sugar leaves be used? Should they be dried and cured like normal bud? or is this a "bud" only receipe. My bro, has about 3 oz of trimmed leaves, sugar leaves and those little tiny buds from the bottom of the plant in the freezer. Can that be used? It's still fresh, just frozen. We tried it once, but it was really wasn't the best tasting.. I like PF's Idea as I use that when making fresh stock and making if fat free. I cook the meat, strain, and let it sit in the fridge overnight. I then pull the fat off and then reduce the stock, in some cases, I may render the fat to clarify it for roux, but only rarely. Would that be good too? to heat the butter again, to clarify it more after it's been "cooked" and strained? Would it ruin the thc content?

yes sugar trim can be used. fresh should work ok.... to clarify it the best way is if you have something like a sun tea jar with a spout to act as a separation funnel to keep adding hot water and then separating it from the butter until any water added remains clear and clean. but what you suggest can also be done as long as you add water when you reheat it. I suggest tho that my idea will work faster and more completely. I don't really know about the animal fat but i expect it would work ok.

[pflover]

lol funny, amj.

anyway, truth be told i make all my butter in a 4 gal stainless steal put these days, stove top. but mostly i make leaf butter and only rarely make duf butter and almost never make bud butter.

[sawmaw]

Hey PF. My point of our techniques is the same in principal, just different products. I am just trying to find the common ground for understanding. What I was describing, is a cooking technique, after you boil or simmer meats, veggies in its juice, strain it when done, and when you let the juice-broth -stock, cool over night in the fridge, all the fat will float to the top. The fat hardens lift it off and what's left is "fat free". To render the fat is to heat it high enough to burn off any thing thing left over in it leaving it purer. When making gravy or sauces adding flour to the fat, makes a fine roux to thicken the strained stock and the flavor is fantastic. very full of cholesterol, but tasty. To "boil" or simmer the leaves in water with the butter on top of it. The thc will then bind with the butter and then when done, strain well, and let the water and butter cool overnight. next day, the butter is hard and just lift if out. walla. Rendering, it would probably kill the thc content, though, as the temp should be high enough to burn off the left over particles left in the butter leaving a "pure" product. But I think you answered my question about the quality of the leaves, and small budage, being dried some, wet or dried and cured to ensure the best tasting end product.

[pflover]

ok now i understand. thanx for clarifying. yeah rendering would totally be a mistake. however as i pointed out there are other ways to improve the purity and quality of the final product.

when working with fresh frozen product like my leaves i always blend the material in warm, but not hot, water and then run it through my coarsest and finest bubble bags. the water is tossed but both filtrates are kept and added to the butter pot. this, in my experience greatly increases the quality of the final product by significantly reducing the amount of chlorophyll/icky green taste which makes it into the butter in the first place. then the repeated rinsing of the finished butter in the sun tea jar removes most of the rest.

[sawmaw]

Ok, great, now I see the missing piece. He doesn't have bubble bags.. Can you suggest a cheap alternative?

[sawmaw]

Let me note, back in the day, I did something like JB did with brownies, except I put about 1/3 oz of prime bud ground up directly in a batch of brownies, but you could taste it. I heated it up in the oil, and then added it all to the batter. Great buzz, but taste suxked. Since a vape is not accessible, this method would be hypothetically be using bud and sugar leaves, trim..etc. So, would it better, just to use oil? Brownies, would be better than butter, as diet wise, butter would be off limits. Brownies, now, wouldn't be. Hmmm.

[pflover]

I simply don't like working with anything else and find i get the best results with butter so that is all use to make my medibles.... brownies or other wise but if you like olive oil or canola oil the should would just as well.

cheap alternative to bubble bags is filter bags tho now on ebay you can find bubble bag-like bags for a similar price to filter bags but with out as many options.

5gal filterbag kit (http://www.filterbag.com/Starter-Kits/KIT-MESH-5GP-p125.html)

1gal w/draw string kit (http://www.filterbag.com/Starter-Kits/KIT-MESH-DS-p126.html)

[PolarOpposite]

So I understand that different cannabinoids are available at different temperatures but for duff to be effective what is the maximum temp you want to vape at? Or do most just vape as they always have?

[pflover]

If i turn my vap up too high the semi smoke that is produced is extremely hard on my lungs.... I only vap until the bud is no longer green but light tan to tan and smells like burnt popcorn then i start a new bowl.... if the duff is at all charred the resulting butter is nasty but if the duff is just tan the resulting butter has a heavenly roasted nutty flavor.

[PolarOpposite]

Thanks for the info PF, I think I should be good then, all of my vaped herb is a light tan.

[BigJnWorldWide]

Well, round 2 started this morning at 2AM eastern time. Water was used and it is proceeding nicely. I got off work around 1PM today and the apartment smelled of that heavenly smell we all love. I can't wait to wait to start baking tomorrow. :)

[PolarOpposite]

If i turn my vap up too high the semi smoke that is produced is extremely hard on my lungs.... I only vap until the bud is no longer green but light tan to tan and smells like burnt popcorn then i start a new bowl.... if the duff is at all charred the resulting butter is nasty but if the duff is just tan the resulting butter has a heavenly roasted nutty flavor.


Thanks for the help, I finally got around to making butter. First batch I decided to do 21 grams of duff w/ 7 grams cured buds to 2 sticks of butter... poor choice for me to use 2 sticks of butter but at least others who had them found them to be a great dose for them, which was a good thing to note

the next batch I made was an ounce of duff to 1 stick of butter and I found that to work nicely for me and can be split in half for lighter smokers.

24 hours in the crock pot made all the difference.

I am really glad I found this thread, I always felt like vaping wasted so much but now I find myself anticipating when I fill up my mason jar :D as I can now make edibles even when I'm out of trim!

Oh some info that may help others, I vape using a volcano set between 5.5 and raising to 6.5 after a couple bags.

[pflover]

the next batch I made was an ounce of duff to 1 stick of butter and I found that to work nicely for me and can be split in half for lighter smokers.

:) yeah that has been my experience as well :)

[BigJnWorldWide]

Pflover would be so proud. After only 8 whole months and 4 batches later I got my technique down. I now use 2oz duff to 4 sticks of butter lile people advised but I used a different crock pot this time. My gf had a box of some old stuff laying around with this old ceramic crock pot. It was a taller thinner one though. And if I'm not mistaken, I thought I read somewhere it was much more effective to have your material immersed in the butter while it cooks. Well it was an exponential improvement over my previous methods. I also cooked it for a full 24hrs instead of 16 on low. And then to filter it I use a french press that we bought from IKEA for $12. makes grit free, potent butter ready to use in anything. I think I'm gonna de-virginize her pineapple upside down cake recipe for the next batch. I like this so much more because I don't have to use as much material to make the butter. And 2 brownies out of a batch of 12 will put me to sleep and almost give me a euphoric sensation. This works for me and hopefully it will work for you guys as well. And remember, use better buds for better duff butter. Peace, be well.