notes form William Bloode's soil mixing Grow Chat.

[pflover]

[05:04 PM] William Bloode: Ok, now good soil is alive. Good soil takes time and a bit of work
[05:05 PM] William Bloode: you need a bit of room and a few tools
[05:05 PM] Rept: good soil vs bad soil?
[05:05 PM] William Bloode: yes good you make v.s bad which can be bought anywhere
[05:06 PM] William Bloode: Ok now you will want a small svovel/spade, a hand held rake at least, a dust mask or two, and a hand spade is not a bad i dea, you also need a container to mix and store
[05:07 PM] William Bloode: forgot the gloves :)
[05:07 PM] William Bloode: There are many ways to go about making a good living soil
[05:08 PM] William Bloode: The simplest is to use a pre packed non ammended soil and use organic additives
[05:08 PM] Rept: my question would be for a person that only grows 2-4 plants on how to come up with a good soil without having to buy tons of stuff
[05:09 PM] William Bloode: This has it pluses and negatives. Pluses being easy, the negatives are the short cuts that they take making it ;)
[05:09 PM] William Bloode: Now rept you can use this method like so> 1-16qt bag of soil
[05:10 PM] William Bloode: Add 1/2cp bloode meal 1/2 cup bonemeal 1/8th cup alfalfa meal and a 1/8th cup oif lime
[05:11 PM] William Bloode: Mix in small 20qt container cover let set for 2wks and viola!
[05:12 PM] William Bloode: Blood meal is $5 or less a box and so is blood meal, for the alfalfa you can buy small boxes of rabbit pe;llest at a dollar store for about a buck
[05:13 PM] William Bloode: a bag of each will do say 10-15 bags easy
[05:14 PM] William Bloode: In bulk alfalfa meal or rabbit pellets are cheaper still
[05:14 PM] William Bloode: yes alfalfa and rabbit pellets which are made from alfalfa release triacontanol a growth regulator
[05:15 PM] William Bloode: You can get the same benifit from the rabbit shit as well if they are fed with the pellets
[05:15 PM] slater: any nutes in it?
[05:15 PM] William Bloode: Very little only traces in meal and pellets
[05:16 PM] William Bloode: The trick with triacontanol is too use small amounts, larger amounts negate the effect
[05:16 PM] William Bloode: Chicken poop is a fine N source but requires composting first
[05:17 PM] mellobuds: just about all manures need to be composted first
[05:17 PM] William Bloode: Now the simple mix mentioned is cheap efficient and easy and is in fact what i use
[05:17 PM] William Bloode: No poop is really supierior it just depends on how and what it's composted with
[05:18 PM] William Bloode: Now composting all organics is very benificial
[05:18 PM] Pothead Pete: you guys are talking outdoors I guess
[05:18 PM] mellobuds: outdoors or in....
[05:18 PM] William Bloode: This is what breaks down the organic matierial in to it's usfull components
[05:18 PM] Pothead Pete: I use Bat Guano( no smell), and worm castings( nio smell)
[05:19 PM] William Bloode: It also helps to create benificial humic and fulvic acids in the soil which work as conditioners and allow for easy uptake of nutrients
[05:20 PM] William Bloode: Worm castings are also great
[05:21 PM] William Bloode: You can in fact have a good medium with just 1/3-1/12 castings and 2/3rds-1/2 perilite
[05:21 PM] William Bloode: Castings are a great food and will almost never burn
[05:22 PM] William Bloode: You can also make you own castings very cheap and easy
[05:22 PM] pflover: Ally castings?
[05:23 PM] William Bloode: A 30 g tub(sterilite) filled with moist news paper and scraps and 24-36 redworms added will yield quite a bit of castings in 30 days time
[05:24 PM] William Bloode: Keep wet add new paper for food as needed and sttir every few days and it will keep on giving
[05:24 PM] William Bloode: Like coffe grounds light non greay veggie scraps
[05:24 PM] slater: how to stirlize it?
[05:24 PM] William Bloode: you don't
[05:24 PM] William Bloode: Not very potent thats why it wont burn
[05:25 PM] slater: wont attract bugs and such?
[05:25 PM] William Bloode: Now someone mentioned molasses
[05:26 PM] William Bloode: Of course it will attract bugs, but if you sterilize the soil you will negate all the benificial bacteria
[05:26 PM] William Bloode: Yes slater redworms are similar to night cawlers
[05:27 PM] William Bloode: Yes mollases hase about a 1-0-5 nute rating and provides carbs and many micro nutes like sulfur and maganese
[05:27 PM] mellobuds: will the sulpher in mollasses also combat mold when used in this manner?
[05:28 PM] William Bloode: Yes if sprayed on it will act as a detturrent
[05:28 PM] pflover: i thought you were suppose to use unsulfered molasses
[05:28 PM] William Bloode: No you can use any
[05:29 PM] William Bloode: Molasses right of the grocery store shelf works fine
[05:29 PM] William Bloode: Big nute companies use it to make shit like carboload and then charge out the ass for it
[05:30 PM] Rept: says a good source of potassium,iron and madneesium right on the botle
[05:31 PM] illin: does the blood and bone meal attract insects as well?
[05:31 PM] William Bloode: Yes and let me explain ;)
[05:31 PM] William Bloode: Outdoors it will attract animals and insects
[05:32 PM] William Bloode: Inddoor it primarialy attracts fungus gnats but you can keep them in check with a thin layer of sand on top of your soil and allowing it to dry out well
[05:33 PM] mellobuds: or diacrtomeous soil (SP)
[05:34 PM] William Bloode: Ok, now outdoor the ticket is to make sure you prep holes 60-90 days in advance so it is totally broken down and there is no smell
[05:35 PM] William Bloode: Fungus gnats are mostly an annoyance buit if allowed to go uncontroled they can cause root damage, but that in rare cases
[05:35 PM] mellobuds: diatomaceous cuts up thier exoskeletons as they come out of the soil, kills em quick for bad infestations
[05:35 PM] slater: so the holes should be prepped in late fall for spring?
[05:36 PM] William Bloode: Yes like any good farmer slater you prep in the fall and winter for spring
[05:36 PM] slater: i cant do that...lots of hunters in the wood that time of year here
[05:37 PM] William Bloode: Late winter Slater will give you plenty of time
[05:38 PM] slater: ever try digging a hole in the snow/ice...not fun
[05:38 PM] William Bloode: Which brings us to soil building
[05:38 PM] William Bloode: True S i foget alot of you live in the north unlike me
[05:39 PM] Undereducated: slater dig the holes ammend with the mix, and then cover with some rocks and other native items
[05:40 PM] William Bloode: Now soil building requires more time more work and a bit of patience
[05:40 PM] slater: yeah, i will be digging very early spring...after turkey hunting nexttime
[05:41 PM] William Bloode: Soil building you make all the components you self through composting etc
[05:43 PM] William Bloode: Composting is just gathering yard waste and usefull household waste and allowing nature to work it's magin and break it down over time
[05:43 PM] William Bloode: How big your bin or contaier is depends on your needs
[05:44 PM] William Bloode: Almost all yard waste is usefull, but you must be careful with household waste
[05:44 PM] mellobuds: no bones
[05:44 PM] pflover: no bones?
[05:45 PM] pflover: why?
[05:45 PM] illin: wb so you use this compost as your soil then or do you add it to the bought soil?
[05:45 PM] Undereducated: animals for 1
[05:45 PM] William Bloode: Coffee grounds non greasy food scraps hair some news paper, egg shells are all goodr
[05:45 PM] mellobuds: attracts ants if there is any meat on em at all
[05:45 PM] William Bloode: Ground bone is ok but whole bone takes forever to break down
[05:45 PM] William Bloode: Ants are good they are our friends
[05:45 PM] mellobuds: dogs will be in your compost heap, and cats...
[05:46 PM] William Bloode: Thats why uou cover your compost heap
[05:46 PM] Undereducated: rats and mice
[05:47 PM] William Bloode: Rats and mice are ok to, you won't be planting them, beside it will atrract mice, rats, and snakes regardless of whats there
[05:47 PM] pflover: what about cannabis ash for the compost?
[05:48 PM] William Bloode: Ashe is good in compost
[05:48 PM] illin: potasium
[05:48 PM] mellobuds: ash is good, just not too much of a good thing....can make it alkiline....
[05:48 PM] Undereducated: as long as there is no char
[05:48 PM] William Bloode: I personally don't know of any specific benifit of cannabis ashe but it make homeopathec sense
[05:50 PM] William Bloode: Now compost can be mixed with worm castings and perilite, maybe some sand to make a good growing medium
[05:50 PM] Undereducated: creosole (sp?)
[05:51 PM] mellobuds: creosote....mainly from pine and fir
[05:51 PM] William Bloode: True M but oak, hickory, and other hard woods charcoal is ok
[05:53 PM] mellobuds: be careful with oak,,,very acidic
[05:55 PM] William Bloode: Oak is acidic but thats why we use lime
[05:55 PM] William Bloode: Lime is almost always needed in organic gardening
[05:55 PM] Undereducated: do you beleieve in innoculating a new compost pile with some from an old pile to get the new pile going wb?
[05:56 PM] William Bloode: Yes Ue that helps as it introduces all the needed bacteria and fungus used to break it down
[05:57 PM] Undereducated: little turbo boost to get things movin! lol
[05:57 PM] William Bloode: Lime as most of you know i am sure works to raise ph, this is very much a neccecity in organic gardening
[05:58 PM] William Bloode: Organic method have a high ph as they get to working, they can infact get very "hot"
[05:59 PM] William Bloode: Now if you live in an area with high ph water you may not need lime
[05:59 PM] pflover: yep!
[06:00 PM] William Bloode: Because in a completly built soil the acidity may be to much for molasses to handle on it's own
[06:00 PM] mellobuds: 7.1 would be the high end of acceptable
[06:00 PM] William Bloode: Normal natureal and well water normal have a lower ph
[06:02 PM] Pothead Pete: proper ph is essential
[05:51 PM] William Bloode: Now composting is a bit of an art and each person will develop their own stlye

Thanx WB!!! I learned a lot.

:cool:

[illin]

Thank you pf for posting this and for all yall for edumacatin me. And to think you wanted to skip this chat.;)

[pflover]

i didn't want to skip it. :P i just couldn't have done it myself.

[illin]

I was just joshin with ya

[Pothead Pete]

I guess we have to start somewhere and I guess that something for tonights chat was composting. An excellent lesson...he he... :D :D

[hollowpoint]

I liked the reference to the simple starting soiless medium, 1/3-1/2 worm castings, 1/3-1/2 perlite and maybe sand, sounds like a good idea for a seed bed. you could easily remove the roots without damage, to use in a hydro setup, or in soil.

[Clear Head C]

thanks for posting last nights chat, could not attend, I can't stay on phone long, selling my pups, actually heading down to potheads in the next couple of minutes to show them to some people in toronto.
Very good stuff, I will sure to use this on my next transplant, two big thumbs up

[pflover]

I liked the reference to the simple starting soiless medium, 1/3-1/2 worm castings, 1/3-1/2 perlite and maybe sand, sounds like a good idea for a seed bed. you could easily remove the roots without damage, to use in a hydro setup, or in soil.

yeah no kidding hp! :)

if one is not inclined to make there own or do not know anywhere locally to get it like that what are some good brands of worm castings?

[anonymous]

Thanks for copying this PF GREAT info here..!! sorry i missed chat last night folks been so busy ..!!

[William Bloode]

[05:10 PM] William Bloode: Add 1/2cp bloode meal 1/2 cup bonemeal 1/8th cup alfalfa meal and a 1/8th cup oif lime

This should also include 25-50% perilite added.

[William Bloode]

Also to discourage fireants you can use our friend molasses, as it discourages fireants, you can also use moth balls around you compost heap to discourage snakes and rodents, also building a nice secure cover bin will take car of this.

We have to remember there are ways to work around all the problems that may arise, and many are benificial in and of themselves.

Simple soil mixing takes less time and space, and most folks will wan to try that avenue. Thats simply buying a non ammended soil (non peat based as peat is very acidic, some peat is ok) I suggest screeding the soil over a screen to remove all big chunks. Big chunks can inhibit root growth. Then you simply add you organic material and drain additives like perilite or vermiculite. The trick part is getting a balanced mixture and a good NPK ratio that works well for our herb. I genreally use bloodmeal for N, and Bloodmeal for P, both contain some K. Here is a list of some organic values>

Blood, dried
13.0
2.0
1.0

Bone meal, raw
3.0
22.0
--

Bone meal, steamed
1.0
15.0
--

Compost
1.5 - 3.5
0.5 - 1.0
1.0 - 2.0

Manure, dairy
0.6 - 2.1
0.7 - 1.1
2.4 - 3.6

Manure, duck
0.6
1.4
0.5

Manure, feedlot
1.0 - 2.5
0.9 - 1.6
2.4 - 3.6

Manure, horse
1.7 - 3.0
0.7 - 1.2
1.2 - 2.2

Manure, poultry
2.0 - 4.5
4.5 - 6.0
2.1 - 2.4

Manure, rabbit
2.4
1.4
0.6

Manure, sheep
3.0 - 4.0
1.2 - 1.6
3.0 - 4.0

Manure, swine
3.0 - 4.0
0.4 - 0.6
0.5 - 1.0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chicken Manure (fresh) 1.6 1.5 0.9 Compost, or delay planting at least 3 wks.
Cow Manure (fresh) 0.3 0.2 0.1 Compost, or delay planting at least 3 wks.
Horse Manure (fresh) 0.7 0.3 0.6 Compost, or delay planting at least 3 wks.
Pig Manure (fresh) 0.5 0.3 0.5 Compost, or delay planting at least 3 wks.
Rabbit Manure (fresh) 2.4 1.4 0.6 Compost, or delay planting at least 3 wks.
Sheep Manure (fresh) 0.7 0.3 0.9 Compost, or delay planting at least 3 wks.
Worm Castings 0.5 0.5 0.3 High in organic matter. Already Composted

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carbon and Nitrogen Content
of Common Compost Ingredients*
Material % Carbon %Nitrogen
Alfalfa pellets 40.5 2.7
Blood meal 43 13
Cottonseed meal 42 6
Soybean meal 42 6
Legume hay, dry 40 2.0-2.5
Nonlegume hay, dry 40 1.0-1.5
Fresh manure, cow 12-20 0.6-1.0
Fresh manure, horse 20-35 0.5-1.0
Fresh manure, laying chickens 10.5-20 1.5-3.0
Fresh manure, broiler chickens 20-32.5 1.3-2.0
Wheat or oat straw, dry 48 0.5
Grass clippings, fresh 10-15 1-2
Fallen leaves 20-35 0.4-1.0
Newspaper or cardboard, dry 40 0.1
Wood chips or sawdust 25-50 0.1
Coffee grounds 25 1.0
Vegetable wastes, fresh, leafy 10 1.0
Vegetable wastes, starchy 15 1.0
Kitchen scraps 10-20 1-2
Fruit wastes 8 0.5
Seaweed, fresh 10 1.0
Weeds, fresh 10-20 1-4
* average; based on fresh weight
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Organic gardeners know that worms help plant matter to decompose, improve soil structure and leave behind rich fertilizer. Researchers have now found that worm composts actually make plants grow faster.

Researchers at Ohio State University found that including just 10 to 20 percent worm compost (by volume) in a commercial potting mix can boost the growth rate of marigolds, bachelor's buttons, tomatoes and peppers by up to 40 percent over that of plants grown in an unamended mix.

"Even when we provided all plants with enough fertilizer for optimum growth, plants still grew better when the soil was amended with worm compost," reports Jim Metzger, Ph.D., horticulture professor at Ohio State.

Researchers at Mississippi State University have found that worm compost increases the germination rate and growth of cucumbers. And scientists in Italy have confirmed similar results with carrots.

How can you get the powerful benefits of worm castings in your garden? If your home compost pile already contains lots of worms, you give your plants a boost every time you apply the compost.

Don't have a compost pile? You can set up a worm bin in your home, feed the worms your kitchen scraps and collect their castings. Here are some hints, from Amy Stewart, author of "The Earth Moved: On The Remarkable Achievements of Earthworms" (Algonquin Books, 2004).

The worms that live in your outdoor compost pile may not be the best species for a closed worm composting system. Some worms, like nightcrawlers, will not survive long in captivity. Your best bet is to order worms from a reputable worm dealer. Eisenia fetida or E. andrei are generally considered the best species of worms for composting.

You can buy a worm bin (check our "Find Organic Gardening" section for links to lots of companies that sell worms, bins and other supplies), or build your own from a plastic tub with a tight-fitting lid. Be sure to include holes for air and drainage, and put a fine mesh screen in the bottom to keep the worms from escaping.

Feed worms a low-fat, vegan diet: they love fruit and vegetable scraps, coffee grounds, tea bags, rice, pasta, and bread, but they can't tolerate meat, dairy, or oil.

Keep the food covered with a layer of shredded newspaper or cardboard, which will keep flies away and provide another food source for the worms.

Add crushed eggshells to prevent acidity. The worms will not eat the shells—you can add them to your garden along with the castings.

Keep the bin as damp as a wrung-out sponge. Adding wet or dry newspaper is a good way to change the humidity in the bin.

Keep your bin in a sheltered spot, away from sun and rain. Worms prefer a moderate climate, 60 degrees F is ideal. A small worm bin will even fit in your garage or cellar.

Be patient! It can take up to six months or a year before you collect castings from your bin for the first time. It takes the worms this long to get acclimated and start reproducing enough to fill the bin.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a few add ins. For a great place to learn all you need to know about organic gardening visit>

http://www.organicgardening.com

[pflover]

if one is not inclined to make there own or do not know anywhere locally to get it like that what are some good brands of worm castings?


:confused:

[groo]

That's a lot of good info in this thread! It also looks like going full organic is a lot cheaper than soilless with hydro nutes.

[pflover]

yup :) organic tastes better too impo.

[William Bloode]

Pf Most types of worm castings sold are equal, as it's a hard product to mess up. So whatever kind is available should suit you needs as well as any other kind.

Yes organic can be cheap, it can also be expensive as hell if you fall for alot of that new age marketing crap. Fact is you produce enough stuff on your own to make plenty of good Humus and compost.

I won't go as far as to say organic is better than hydro, as you can use many of the organic hydroponic nutrients available to achieve an organic grow in hydroponics, i personally use Pure Blend Pro, and Liquid Karma by Botanicare in my hydroponic applications. Leaves no fowl taste even unflushed and is a wonderfull balance of natural organic goodies. Also works well as a add in fertilizer for soil.

The benifit of organics besides taste and aromas, are the fact it is kinder and gentler on plants, and is much more complete over all than chemical fertilizers. Chemical ferts make the soil alkaline over time due to salt build up, and also tend to sanitize the soil/medium of benificial bacteria and microbes that make for extremely healthy vigorous plants. Even the simple mix i recommended, using organic teas, or a packaged organic fertilizer like Pure Blend, or Pure Blend Pro will far outshine basic soil and chemical compositions.

[groo]

Leaves no fowl taste...

How about the chicken manure? Any fowl (foul) taste there? :D

[William Bloode]

Yeah ya got me good groo, hehehehe fowl hehehehe.

Anyway on to some information on organic teas.

Organic teas are add in top feeding ferts you make youself. They have many benifits over standard fertilizers. These can range from simple to complex. Some information from a funded study>


For centuries, farmers and gardeners have mixed and soaked plant wastes, manures and
composts in water, and used the rich decanted brew as a liquid fertilizer, or "organic tea".
There is a great deal of testimonial observations that indicate organic teas probably have some
sort of benefit for growing plants. These observations are supported by scientific research,
which shows that organic slurries not only dissolve important nutrients, but, given enough time
and oxygen, they can also extracts humic acids, organic nutrients, vital enzymes and beneficial
microbes, all of which make for a more vigorous plant.

1.1.1 Commercial Sources of Organic Tea Microbes

Coinciding with the recent interest in organic teas has been the increasing availability of
biofungicides and microbial fertilizers on the commercial market. In many ways, these
commercial microbial fertilizers and pesticides mimic the effects of organic teas by
providing many of the same microbes. They should be considered as possible commercial
(=standardized) variables against which organic teas could be tested. They also might be
useful as inoculants for making organic teas. Just a very few of the companies offering
microbials are listed below, together with a brief description of the various microbe groups
offered.
Compost activators and other "microbial inoculants" are sold by many companies.
They generally include a variety of microbes from one or more of the following general
groups. 1) Nitrogen-fixing, bacteria convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia forms
available to plants. These include a) non-symbiotic bacteria both aerobic forms like
Azotobacter, Azomonas, Mycobacterium and Azospirillum and anaerobic types like
Bacillus, Enterobacter, Escherichia and Rhodospirullum , b) the symbiotic bacteria
Rhizobia and c) certain cyanobacteria like Anabaena, Nostoc, Scytonema and
Westiella. 2) Phosphate solubilizing microbes can bring insoluble phosphates in soil
into soluble forms by secreting organic acids such as formic, acetic, propionic, lactic
and fumaric.


A GLOSSARY FOR ORGANIC TEAS

AEROBIC/ANAEROBIC: Used to describe organisms that utilize oxygen in their metabolism (aerobic or
"with air") and those that don't (anaerobic or "without air".)

COMPOST: Organic matter that has been decayed in constructed piles under ideal conditions of carbon,
nitrogen air and water. Composting rids organic wastes of salts and toxins and pasteurizes many weeds
and diseases. It creates a "stabilized" material that, when added to the soil, can decay rapidly into humus
without upsetting the life and properties of the soil. There is no current agreement on what actually
constitutes "finished" compost. As a result, both commercial and on-site composts can occur in a variety of
states from "fresh" to "well-aged" to "suppressive" depending on the methods and time used in the
composting process.

FEEDSTOCK: Organic matter (see below) used in tea extractors.

GREEN MANURES are plants that are grown in the garden and then dug in at season's end. The plant
bodies provide fiber that break down in the soil to produce humus. Since most green manures have
extensive or deep root systems, they represent one of the few ways that unavailable nutrients leached deep
into the subsoil can be made available to plants. Because of this, certain green manures may be an
untapped feedstock for organic tea extractors.

HUMUS is the end-product of organic decay; the last stage in the decomposition of organic matter. In
spite of decades of study, scientists are still not sure what humus is. It is probably a mixture of a few
complex organic compounds that vary according to the type of organic matter decayed and the conditions
of decay. Soil humus is traditionally separated from the soil's mineral matrix with NAOH or Na4P207 .
The fraction not dispersed by the Na, the chelating action of pyrophosphate or the alkalinity is known as
humin. The dispersible material precipitated at acidic pH is called humic acid. The material that stays in
solution is called fulvic acids (62A). Whatever it is, all humus is brown or black, has a fine crumbly
texture and smells like fresh sweet earth. It is sponge -like in texture and holds many times its weight in
water. Like clay, humus attracts and stores many important plant nutrients, but unlike clay, humus can
also act as a powerful chelating agent for the increased availability of micro-nutrients.

ORGANIC MATTER (MATERIALS): The bodies and waste of once-living things. Kitchen scraps,
grass clippings, weeds, leaves, sawdust and animal manure are examples of organic materials.

ORGANIC TEA is a liquid extract made by soaking bags of various kinds of organic matter in water to
create a liquid rich in the beneficial nutrients, organic compounds and microbes found in the organic
materials. T'he liquid tea is than applied in fertigation systems, as a soil drench, or as a foliar spray.
Synonym: Leachate.

SCUM: A gas / liquid emulsion phase that occurs at high rates of gas production in organic slurries,
similar to the "head" on a beer

SLURRY: A mixture/suspension of organic matter in water.

VERMICOMPOSTING makes compost in earthworm cultures. This technique is especially appealing
for people who live where bulky compost bins and unsightly heaps are not possible. Moreover, the manure
Organic Farming Research Foundation Project Report
#97-40: Organic teas from composts and manures, by Richard Merrill and John McKeon
from earthworms, called "castings" is a bit closer to true humus than compost and may have unique
properties as an organic tea feedstock..



lower the pH and bring about the dissolution of bound forms of phosphate. P-S microbes include the soil
bacteria Pseudomonas and Bacillus and the fungi Aspergillus and Penicillium.
3) Cellulolytic microbes have the ability to degrade the resistant carbohydrates cellulose and lignin. These
include the filamentous fungi (most active in acid soils) Chaetomium, Trichodenna , the bacteria
Cellulomonas, Clostridium and the actinomycetes Nocardia and Streptomyces.
- Mycorrhiza live on plant roots and provide a living link between the plant's feeder roots and the
surrounding soil ecology to improve growth rates, resist disease and withstand weather extremes. cor @
from Plant Health Care, Pittsburgh, PA is a combination of endo- and ectomycorrhizal fungal spores,
nitrogen-fixing and phosphate solubilizing bacteria, organic nutrients, humic acids and sea kelp extract.
- Residuce from AgriEnergy Resources, Princeton, is a compost tea, combined with liquid humates,
fructose, molasses, alfalfa meal, ground chitin and liquefied rock powders with the following advantages:
1) gradually deepens the aerobic zone in the topsoil, 2) builds high quality humus by slowing down
oxidation of carbon in favor of microbial digestion into humus, 3) breaks down herbicides faster, 4)
reduces allelopathic toxins, 5) improves moisture-holding capacity. The company also sells Soilrite, a
liquid extract of dairy manure, chicken manure and compost combined with liquid humates, fish emulsion,
cold water seaweed and liquefied rock powders ... essentially a manure extract with supplemental
fertilizers. A12plied as a spray at 10- 15 2allons per acre.
9 Actinovate from Natural Industries, Inc. Houston Texas sells a strain of the actinomycete, Streptomyces
lydicus, (also available in an iron fulvate formulation) which is touted as: "a natural soil and plant
inoculant with root zone protection." Developed to promote better seedling growth, enhance overall plant
growth and vigor; make micro-nutrients more available; create an environment unfriendly to damaging soil
fungi.
Companion or Growth Products, White Plains, N.Y. offers a variety of biofungicides de-


4
Organic Farming Research Foundation Project Report
#97-40: Organic teas from composts and manures, by Richard Merrill and John McKeon


scribed as "beneficial microbes that crowd out disease-causing pathogens. The microbes attach to root
hairs and produce hormones that stimulate root growth.

1.2 Types of Organic-Tea Extraction Systems

In the past, organic tea systems have been described as being either "anaerobic" or "aerobic", depending
on the degree of aeration given to the system. As a result of our observations and experiments, we find this
distinction to be quite misleading. In the end, all properly designed organic tea systems should be
completely aerobic. The real distinction is the degree of aeration given to the system in order to allow it to
extract over a protracted time period. We prefer the terms "passive" (a contained or bagged slurry that is
simply allowed to soak in water) and "active" or aerated (an organic tea system that receives a boost of
oxygen with the use of mechanical mixing, packed columns or forced air.)
In recent years, more attention has been given to teas brewed in aerated systems. Aerated tea devices
extend the time of extraction so that a higher quantity and quality of nutrients and microbes can be drawn
from the organic feedstock. There are several good references on using and making compost teas from a
variety of feedstocks: (3, 5, 13, 20, 22, 28A, 42, 43, 63, 77, 79, 82, 83).
1.2.1 Passive ("Anaerobic") Systems

Passive tea extraction systems are those in which a feedstock is simply left to soak in water. After
a few days, passive systems will become anaerobic and, as a result, begin to produce various organic
acids such as butyric, proprionic and acetic plus the odors of reduced forms of nitrogen (NH 4 ) and
sulfur H2S)' which, in turn will attract flies. There is some evidence that the by-products of anaerobic
decay can actually harm plant roots (James Downer, pers. conim.). Two popular types of static
systems include:
- Soak-in Water Method: The easiest way to make an organic tea is to add about 2 cups of
chopped-up plants (alfalfa and various weeds are popular), animal manure, compost or earthworm
castings to each gallon of water, and let it soak for a few days. This is about how long it takes for
most of the soluble nutrients to leach out into the water, and for most of the available water oxygen
to be consumed by aerobic microbes. When it's done, scoop out the
Organic Farming Research Foundation Project Report
#97-40: Organic teas from composts and manures, by Richard Merrill and John McKeon

5

feedstock or drain out the liquid and pour it around your plants as a side-dressing. If you
want to spray it on, you may have to strain it through gauze or screen. Follow standard
practices for foliar spraying (see Appendix 1)
- Soak-in Bag Method: Most tea-makers prefer to put their manures or composts in a
bag made of muslin, burlap or other porous material. The "tea bag" is hung in a container
of water for one or two days. This produces a much cleaner tea. Use about 1 or 2 cups
of organic matter per gallon of water.
1.2.2 Active ("Aerobic") Systems

The trouble with the passive extraction methods is that they can go anaerobic very
quickly. When you soak organic materials in water for more than a few days, aerobic
microbes in the slurry pull all the oxygen out of the water. This turns over the production of
the tea to oxygenavoiding (anaerobic) microbes, which produce an inferior tea with fewer
available nutrients and organic acids harmful to plant growth. Our research (see following)
indicates that there is usually enough dissolved oxygen in clean water so that anaerobic
microbes aren't dominant for at least 24-48 hours under most conditions. But after that, the
quality of the tea begins to deteriorate. All types of tea systems should be aerobic. The
major variable is the length of time that aerobic extraction is allowed to take place.
There is much evidence to indicate that adding air (oxygen) to an organic tea slurry
improves the quality of the extracted tea. This seems to be due to the fact that aeration
extends the extraction time by several days, which allows the removal of beneficial organic
compounds like vitamins, enzymes, organic chelators plus a bevy of beneficial microbes.
1.3 Benefits of OrganicTeas: Research and Observations

Interest in organic teas for use in agriculture and horticulture has grown rapidly during the last
decade. The literature (See Bibliography) and web sites (20) are full of experiments, testimonials
and observations which suggest that certain liquid extractions of manures or composts (herein
called "Organic Teas"), at various stages of decay, can supply plants with at least four major
benefits

6

Organic Farming Research Foundation Project Report
#97-40: Organic teas from composts and manures, by Richard Merrill and John McKeon

(5,10,13,42,77,79.): a source of plant nutrients; a source of beneficial organic compounds, an
ability to suppress certain plant diseases; a way to build soil structure when applied as a drench.
1.3.1 Provide Inorganic Nutrients and Beneficial Organic Compounds
The types and amount of nutrients in an organic tea depend on the age and kind of material
used. The nutrients from fresh manure teas tend to be soluble salts, especially macronutrient
(N, P, K, Ca, Mg & S) plus micronutrients (e.g., Fe, Zn, Mn and Cu) .
Nutrients from more decomposed feedstocks such as young or unstable compost contains
some available nutrients not yet fixed in microbial biomass, but they also provide organic
nutrients like sugars and amino acids, plus organic chelating agents (humic and fulvic acids)
that carry extracted micronutrients (e.g, iron, zinc, manganese and copper) to plants. Since
micronutrients are the building blocks of plant enzymes, vitamins and hormones, organic teas
can also increase a plant's disease-resistance, vigor and hardiness by providing both
micronutrients and the organic chelating agents that make them available. Organic teas also
contain long chain carbon molecules which provide carbon and oxygen for soil microbes,-
including mycorrhiza. The mycorrhizal hyphae, in turn, greatly extend the root systems of
plants which increases their food uptake, respiration, tolerance to weather extremes and,
possibly, confer some disease resistance.
1.3.2 Suppress Certain Plant Diseases
It is well known that certain soil microbes have the capacity to suppress many serious plant
diseases (1, 19). The disease-suppressive characteristics of organic tea was reported as early
as 1973 by Hunt, et al (36A).
Extractions from well-aged and suppressive composts (see below) have few soluble
nutrients, but they do contain organic chelators and populations of various biofungicidal
microbes. These teas have been shown to act as a natural fungicide, i.e., as an inoculum of
microorganisms that can compete with and suppress some plant pathogens, especially foliar-
fungal diseases.
At the University of Bonn, Germany, Heinrich Weltzien pioneered research in "water
extracts of compost." He showed (75A) that organic tea can be used as a foliar spray to inhibit
Phytoph-
7
Organic Farming Research Foundation Project Report
#97-40: Organic teas from composts and manures, by Richard Merrill and John McKeon
thora on tomatoes and potatoes. Weltzien also showed that the suppressive effect of organic teas
are of a living microbial nature. Sterilized or micron filtered tea had little ability to impact
pathogens (8 1). He also documented that plants treated with tea appeared healthier and more
vigorous than other plants.
Using organic teas or special compost extracts, other researchers and growers have reported
modest to major control of several plant diseases with organic teas including: Apple Collar Rot
(68), Apple Scab (3); Botrytis or Grey Mold (22,69), Downy Mildew (80), Fusarium (46),
Phytophthora (30,45), Potato Blight (6), Powdery Mildew or Erysiphe (12), Pythium
(6,8,15,27,33) and Rhizoctonia, (18,33). According to these authors, compost teas coat plant
surfaces (foliar application) or roots (liquid drench application) with living microorganisms and
provides food for beneficial microbes. This helps secure a diverse and healthy food web
community where symbiotic bacteria and fungi help provide disease resistance.
In addition, several types of organic feedstocks have produced favorable suppressive results
including composts (28, 34, 46, 52, 53, 75, 76, 78, 8 1), municipal and agricultural wastes (74)
and various types of lignous materials such as wood wastes and peat moss ( 4, 15, 18, 27, 30,-32,
35, 43, 49, 59-61, 68, 73).
The principle suppressive microbes in compost teas can suppress diseases in several ways (10):
- They induce resistance against pathogens (pre and posti-infection). - They produce chemical
inhibitors as reported for the suppression of Phytophthora root rot in media amended with
hardwood bark (30, 32). - They inhibit pathogen spore germination - They antagonize and
compete with pathogens through the antibiotic effects of parasitism, hyperparastism and
nutrient competition. Some microbes, especially bacteria, produce antibiotics which cover
the surface of the crop and thus prevent infection by the pathogen. - They extend the root
system of plants, and thereby improve nutrient uptake, plus increased food storage and soil
respiration.
8
There is also growing evidence that chemicals called siderophores, pseudobactins and
pseudomycins produced by the bacteria Pseudomonas spp. exert a powerful suppressive effect on
Organic Farming Research Foundation Project Report
#97-40: Organic teas from composts and manures, by Richard Merrill and John McKeon
other organisms (47). Kai (43) found that ten proteins from secondary metabolites of plant or
microbial origin, effectively suppressed certain pathogenic fungi. In some cases cyanids and
antibiotics interact with host plant and create resistance to disease.
It's not always clear which of these effects is most important to a general impression of
"disease-suppression" as noted in the literature. Furthermore, not all such experiments have been
favorable. Using aerated Luebke compost tea, made in a lab extractor with a vortex nozzle for
aeration, Wittig (85) reported that aerobic compost tea was not effective in controlling apple or
pear scab, downey mildews, brown fruit rot or peach leaf curl. He generally rejected them as
effective controls for: "foliar diseases of fruit trees and grapes." Wittig goes on to note:
"Considering that the microorganisms present in compost may be better adapted to a soil
environment, perhaps their is greater potential for it's use as a drench in controlling soil-borne
pathogens."
In spite of the mixed results, there seems little doubt that certain beneficial microbes can be
water-extracted from aerated organic slurries and applied to leaf surfaces (via foliar feeding) and/
or root systems (via drenching or fertigation). These "beneficial" microbes include mycoparasites
(7), rhizosphere colonies (14), hyperparasitic fungi (29, 47, 66, 67), epiphytic microbes (65, 86)
as well as specific bacteria such as Pseudomonas (40), Azotobacter (58), and certain fungi like
Trichoderma and Gliocladium (36, 62). Apparently disease suppressive microbes that have been
extracted from the compost are able to colonize the surface and roots of plant when applied
properly (see appendix I). Organic teas simply concentrate these beneficial microbes and allow
the grower to apply them in a convenient, concentrated form for nutrients, resistance and disease
control (13). In a real sense, organic teas are a concentrated liquid fertilizer and inoculum of
beneficial microbes.
It is worth noting that Between 50 and 80 percent of a plant's photosynthates (sugars, complex
carbohydrates, animo acids and proteins) are translocated below ground into the root system of
most plants (Elaine Ingham, pers. comm.). Of this amount 40 to 60 percent are released by roots
as exudates that supply food and create the conditions for colonization of soil nticroorgan-
9
isms living in the rhizosphere (the microscopic habitat surrounding roots). These organisms, in
turn, excrete, die, decay and are consumed by other organisms in the soil's food chain. Through
this process of growth, death and decay

The whole report is just to big to copy and paste, but i added a few highlights to get you interested. The full report can be found here>
http://www.ofrf.org/publications/Grant%20reports/97.40.10.Merrill.Fall97.IB9.pdf Be careful though it is fairly big at around 50 or more pages and can take a bit of time to download the PDF document on dial up. If interested in Organic teas i would strongly recommend it though.

[p-butter]

great post BB
loved the read

peace
dough... hope i can catch your chat sometime

[p-butter]

peppermint also works to fight against ants... for whatever reason they dont like the smell, maybe that it messes with their sense of direction but that could be bullshit. anywho mollasses on the mound has always worked great for me as well not that bill needs me to back him up but what the hell eh?

[kshue420]

well i found the right thread !!
i had just bought some blood meal 12-0-0
i'm new to growing but i no high N is good when going into 12/12 so i bought a bag i was also looking for worm castings but could not find any!! & I think i will start a compost soon but to late to help with this grow.
how should i apply the blood meal i had got?
put a small cup at the base of each plant?
or mix it with the water?
right now all i'm using is rush calx bloom its a nutrient conditioner!
in soil indoors . should i be using something else?
i dont have any hydro stores nearby so i would have to order online!
oh is a nutrient conditioner a source of nutes ?

[gelu65]

When I was composting I would dig a hole about 3 or 4 feet in diameter and every day dump in my household garbage and put a little dirt over it, when I grew zuccini I would let a whole bunch get real big then cut them in 2 or 3 pieces and compost them, when you dig down into the hole after the hole is filled with the original dirt you can see hundreds and hundreds of worms in each zuccini when you plant in the hole you get great growing plants and in my yard the hardpan is about a foot to a foot and a half down. one of the best things to compost is kudzu vine if it is legal in your area, the next best is supposed to be alfalfa if you can find some that horse people have to discard. Jerry

[p-butter]

hey man i got two cents worth of typin to throw in... its late though and probly past my bedtime so i hope i dont mess it up.
first of all Rush Calx Bloom... i never heard of but looked it up and altgarden had this:

CAL-X for Fruiting and Flowering
Increases fruit and flower size and weight. Contains super bulking agent for maximum bloom. Enhances coloration and flavour of fruit.

Natural hormones, vitamins and micro-nutrients, better foliar absorption, faster nutrient uptake, guards against environmental stress, early seed germination enhances root growth, improves respiration, stimulates fruit and flower production
consistent results

For best results use with Rush BioStimulants. Use in conjunction with existing nutrient feed program in hydroponics or soil. Experiment with smaller doses on individual plants when introducing any new products to your garden.
Usage - 2 tsp/10 gal added to reservior.

so i guess you will need some more nutes.... but if you are flowering you will need more nutes for flower. 12-0-0 is pretty high in N for flower you need high P and K for flower... something like 0-10-10 or what have you. now its true some N is needed in flower... early flower mostly but veg is a much better place to use 12-0-0 but even still a more rounded fert would be nice like 3-1-1 or 5-5-5.
eitherway man you could use some 12-0-0 as a top dressing or a tea but id use it sparingly as thats a lot of N for flower still think buying EJ bloom/Pure Blend Pro or something like that would be the way to go. truely though i dont know what that Cal-X stuff is nor would do but i know all their products seem like only additives... amino acids and some such stuff.
goodluck though
peace
D

[The Raven]

Nice collection of shared information.

Wish more informative topics from chat like this could be posted to learn from.

I have a ton of reading to get done

Thanks